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Old 13-07-2013, 04:48   #16
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

Our Rules offer some good advice, including:

... Personal attacks on others will not be tolerated.
Challenge others' points of view and opinions, but do so respectfully and thoughtfully.
Excessive sarcasm, belligerence, insults, profanity, anger, offensive comments about race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, and national origin, are not acceptable ...
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ork&page=rules
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Old 13-07-2013, 05:26   #17
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

Sometimes the people who agree with me are wrong too.

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Richard.
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Old 13-07-2013, 05:30   #18
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pirate Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

No.... just means your not drinking Vodka straight outa the freezer..
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Old 13-07-2013, 05:49   #19
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

It is amusing to find that a few people like to tinker with electric circuits without circuits analysis knowledge, or want to sail the seven seas without any seamanship skills, yet others think by connecting a bunch of toys together their future boat miraculously will sail on its own to lala-land. Despite old salts efforts to advise the dreamers to listen and amend their ways, very few do so.

I never want to see someone getting hurt, yet I can see a few vying for shortcuts and quick fixes without assessing the whole picture. Some examples...if a boat hits bottom and immediately stops, what happened to the dissipated energy; structural damage needs to be looked at first, prior to repairs...when a boat catches a fire, the outer skin burns can explain volumes on the accelerant's type and the fire's origin...when someone plays with a 2 OHM resistor to adjust current, no apparent thoughts about current changes in circuit's nodes, or what would a home modified circuit will do to your insurance coverage if there's an electric fire...

When I provide an opinion, I draw on my background and experiences in Engineering, Flying/Sailing and Pharmacy. I don't expect everyone to heed my advice. Agree or disagree, I hope that will still remain friends.

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Old 13-07-2013, 07:14   #20
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

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Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass View Post
"I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?"

You are always wrong if I am an ex US Coast Guard Lt Commander

Dare I say or an RYA instructor or an ISPA Yachtmaster Offshore Instructor Evaluator?

Ooooooh, I am going to be in sooooooo much trouble for those two comments

no feather ruffled, ( your still wrong , what was the reason again?/)

Dave
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Old 13-07-2013, 07:18   #21
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

I think Lagoon, the reasons are several fold

1. People with a "specific" experience, feel it can be generalised and therefore is superior to those with a variety of experiences

2. Sailors are 'ornery", so ones advice can have the zeal of the converted.

3. newbies argue theory with people who have extensive experience, from electronic circuit theory to storm sailing

4. its the internet, your anonymous, overreactions, trolling, etc are par for the course

5. Seaworthy Lass
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Old 13-07-2013, 07:33   #22
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I think Lagoon, the reasons are several fold

1. People with a "specific" experience, feel it can be generalised and therefore is superior to those with a variety of experiences

2. Sailors are 'ornery", so ones advice can have the zeal of the converted.

3. newbies argue theory with people who have extensive experience, from electronic circuit theory to storm sailing

4. its the internet, your anonymous, overreactions, trolling, etc are par for the course

5. Seaworthy Lass
dave
Agree...especiall #3 where people who have been boating their whole life, or at least several decades, or did some competitive racing as a crewmember and think they are more than a newbie.

It's not the quantity of experience it's the quality...and also the resourcefulness of the person to observe, absorb and followup on those experiences.

#1 is a pretty good one also...this example kinda goes with both 1 & 3...

I worked with a guy in the towing assistance business who did 25 years in the Navy than another 10 years on Cross Atlantic Car Carriers with an unlimited masters. Great, smart guy...he was just didn't have the small boat experience to be all that useful working assistance towing.

I also feel sometimes the opposite... that the guy who just bought his first boat and tried some new car wax on it..and shares that experience with us...get's blasted by the "old newbie" that has weekend boated for 60 years, only shops at West Marine, has read every boating mag article ever published and let's the marina handle the difficult maintenance.

So here we are with all kinds....
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Old 13-07-2013, 07:46   #23
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

I agree with you. It would be nice if more would just "agree to disagree". There are a lot of personal attacks. As a newbie I found myself in self-defense mode many times. But, it's still worth to hear all the opinions and advice of those who actually know something. Just like real life, I try and block out the negative and focus on the positive.
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Old 13-07-2013, 07:49   #24
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

On point 1, I remained puzzled that some think that only having direct hands on experience means qualified to talk about a subject let alone to dare! suggest solutions / ideas. But IME sometimes adding 2+2 does equal 4. But clearly a YMMV thing.

It's almost as if those who have not spent half adult life on a boat have instead been living in a cupboard 24/7.........

Personally I like the perspective that new folks to the game of boats bring - and sometimes even bringing good ideas, or if not good questions.........of course some are completely mental or deluded, but that not restricted to new boaters.
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Old 13-07-2013, 07:54   #25
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
On point 1, I remained puzzled that some think that only having direct hands on experience means qualified to talk about a subject let alone to dare! suggest solutions / ideas. But IME sometimes adding 2+2 does equal 4. But clearly a YMMV thing.

It's almost as if those who have not spent half adult life on a boat have instead been living in a cupboard 24/7.........

Personally I like the perspective that new folks to the game of boats bring - and sometimes even bringing good ideas, or if not good questions.
True..but it's when the people with hands on experience explain to the poster arguing from book written material by someone who had one experience on the subject and refer to that book as gospel...I see that as going with point #3.

But... you are certainly correct that a guy with 30 years painting all types of automotive vehicles then another 20 painting aircraft including composite ones probably can give me way more than a few pointers on my roll and tip method...
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Old 13-07-2013, 08:09   #26
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

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Originally Posted by psneeld View Post

But... you are certainly correct that a guy with 30 years painting all types of automotive vehicles then another 20 painting aircraft including composite ones probably can give me way more than a few pointers on my roll and tip method...



Doubt it. I've never seen anyone roll and tip a car or an airplane!
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Old 13-07-2013, 08:12   #27
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

If I agreed with you, we both would be wrong.....
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Old 13-07-2013, 08:31   #28
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

  1. Forum advice is worth exactly what you've paid for it. If you combine it with some self-education and research, it becomes much more valuable.
  2. Opinions on something technical almost always converge around a few (or just one) solution, when there is sufficient understanding and knowledge. Remaining debate is either misunderstanding, or sport.
  3. People who use a SAILING forum as a springboard for non-sailing political wankery (guns climate-change etc) should be keel-hauled. Then banned. I speak from experience, as someone who has been cautioned a few times, and banned from another forum.
  4. Someone with "Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries" in their sig, should be regarded with suspicion as a possible #3 offender. Just saying.
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Old 13-07-2013, 09:22   #29
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
"So why the vehemence or non-acceptance of contrary idea's?

Are we not positive enough to accept different thinking?

Do we prefer to argue?

Is our individual knowledge 'The only way'?

Can the printed word be taken 'out of context' due to the readers emotion at the time?"


It happens all the time here. Often it turns out online (IMO) that there are people who are just used to being surrounded by people who agree with them all the time, but that's unlikely on the internet.

i would particularly like to see us avoid the use of derogatory names for "others." For instance, the only time I have seen the word "sheeple" used as when it is directed at people who disagree with the poster (hasn't happened here, at least not ovbviouslyk but the word has surfaced). I find it ironic when person A calls person B a "sheeple" precisely because person B does *not* agree with person A -- and yet a "sheeple" is supposed to be people who don't think for themselves. But other names surface -- the person is a "noob" (not sure how else one learns to sail except by starting out, etc.)

I personally was driven off by the name-calling once because I was perceived to be less experienced and therefore unacceptable. It's better now but the "undertow" is still there sometimes.

I really do think one person who came in here earlier was a "troll," and internet phenomenom, a person who comes only to spread dissension. Once that's accomplished, they leave to find another board to disrupt, which is a true troll's goal.

But we should tolerate and maybe even welcome differences of opinion, as they often result in discussions, that while animated, provide useful information.

My 2 cents. The great majority of people have something to offer if the conversation doesn't deteriorate into uneupsmanship.

Not true, Raku. My use of the word Sheeple(Yes, I am that horrible person) has never been used in a specific sense describing one person or could even be remotely construed as "name calling", since it has been used in a generic sense to describe a sociological phenomena that has plagued the world since Autralopithicus Africanus descended from the trees. If you feel offended, it's only because you believe it was pointed at you. . .which it was not, nor anyone else specifically on this forum. Secondly, a forum is a venue for varying and divergent opinions and it is just this difference of opinions that make it an interesting place to visit. How frequently would you visit Cruisersforum if everyone thought the same and no one had a different opinion? George Orwell's 1984? Finally, the concept of "one-upmanship" is a mentality that is usually perceived in the mind of the person whose ideas are being challenged. Just because someone doesn't agree with you does not mean they are subjugating you to an interminable offense or the Russian Gulag. Stay focused, stay light and enjoy a great forum that allows an interesting mix of divergent opinions and ideas without undue and restrictive censorship. Good luck and good sailing . . . and remember the words of the late and great Brother Don Cornelius of SoulTrain fame: "Love, Peace and Soul." Captain Rognvald the Obtuse
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Old 13-07-2013, 13:21   #30
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Re: If I Don't Agree With You am I Therefore wrong?

"Love, Peace and Soul." three sentiments I personally have never perceived from any of your posts Rog. even though your sig appears to paraphrase one of America's greatest liberal thinkers (Ed Murrow). Who's the Hypocrite now?
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