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Old 12-10-2012, 05:56   #46
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
the least expensive boat to buy is the well maintained one!

the most expensive boat to buy to is the brand new one, or the needs TLC/project boat!

bet the same applies to house, cars ................ women
Almost true. Boats & cars need specialized parts and a high degree of finishing skills.

Houses, on the other hand, need a bucket of mud, drywall and a few paint rollers. Which is why I think many people fall into the boat refurb trap - they reckon a friend (or themselves) have spruced up the house so what's so tough about a boat......

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the least expensive boat to buy is the well maintained one!
the most expensive boat to buy to is the brand new one, or the needs TLC/project boat!
100% agreement on that!! I think anyone contemplating the refurb should engrave this over their work shed door....
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:02   #47
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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The volvo penta that i had rebuilt , seized last winter. I am unable to sail her from her mooring and back.
Seems you're only a going motor short of a sail. Why did it seize? Have you any comeback on the rebuilders?

If not, then maybe try sailing off and onto her mooring; with crew it's easier than you might think...
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:25   #48
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

Good advice I once received. "Don't wait till the boat is done to go sailing because it will never be DONE. Just go sailing."
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:27   #49
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
the least expensive boat to buy is the well maintained one!

the most expensive boat to buy to is the brand new one, or the needs TLC/project boat!

bet the same applies to house, cars ................ women
uuuuuh Don,

Getting rid of a woman is the most expensive thing you can do. No boat project costs as much as getting a divorce (don't ask me how I know)
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:24   #50
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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I have had her up for sale for a month so I can go backwards and buy a small boat that i can use, but no luck.
You're not going backwards...it's just part of the process. Cut your loss's at any cost and walk away if you have to. Start over and go sailing with your kids again. The lessons learned will be worth the adventure of it all.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:15   #51
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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The hardest thing to convince people is that they won't really save that much money. A project boat should not be about saving money. It should be about fitting and kitting the boat to the owners specifications "at full price" - any savings from putting in one's own labor should be considered a bonus.
That is a good description when buying any older boat. There really is no way to save money. Your personal labor may save a little but all the materials and equipment you pay retail for eat it up and then some. Any skill you are not a master of will not be done proper and come back to bite you. Learning the details of doing boat projects is evident if you read the many thousands of technical posts here on CF. We have a significant collection but by no means complete. This stuff is not easy and willing to do hard work is not ever enough.

Boat building is tedious, labor intensive, and technically demanding. New boats cost a lot because the cost of what goes into them does cost a lot. Fixing old boats takes all of that plus the ability to know when it can't or should not be fixed. Many boats I hate to say belong in a landfill. The materials to complete the refit can be many times more than the value of the boat after it is is fixed up. Most project boats will always lose financially. Many will break you.

Bottom line: Buy the smallest, best boat that works and you can afford so you lose less money.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:35   #52
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

Mark -- what besides the seized engine needs to be fixed? Is the hull completely sound?

Is this your boat listed on Kijiji?

Samson c bird 37 ferro cement ...TRADES WELCOME... - Halifax Sailboats For Sale - Kijiji Halifax Canada.

Date Listed 21-Sep-12 Price $4,000.00 Address B3P 2G2
View map For Sale By Owner





Bought a year ago with good intentions of finishing but never found the time. The boat is a project but is in the water now . Comes with a good sail invatory including twin head sails tri sails storm jib main and large jib. Older winches, some blocks ,VHF. It has a diesel Volvo Penta that is seized. Brass portholes and manual windless. There's a lot of odds and ends to go with ,best to call or email . 9024062115
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:04   #53
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pirate Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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Boatman -- we lost track since they shut down the "legal defense fund" thread. Can you give us any news on your situation? I hope you're making progress. (Sorry for thread drift.)
First salvo fired off today... its a beaut...
Wotnames still working out the rest... but things are happening
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:20   #54
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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Where do i start?....Three years agoe I had the bright idea to buy a bigger boat, so when I seen a 37 ferro cement boat that i could afford, i thought heres my chance. I had a nice PY23 that I sailed all the time, and took the kids out for weekends. I was able to sell her for the money to buy the ferro boat project.
I was so excited to get this bigger boat I didn't look at what I was taking on. I have worked on the boat since i have owned her, but i see no end to the bits and peices I need and the money to get them.
I have not been sailing since i sold my other boat and don't know when I will again. I am at my wits end. I have had her up for sale for a month so I can go backwards and buy a small boat that i can use, but no luck.
This is just a warning to people thinking of taking on such a project...........
IT WILL DRIVE YOU NUTS...........




RANT OVER.....FOR NOW....
I'm in the same place with an airplane. I don't have the time, nor want to spend the money to fix it to the point it can be sold, and nobody else wants it either. I literally am not sure if I could give this plane away. That is one of my options, the other is to buckle down and force myself to repair it, the likely selling it for no more than the cost of the repairs to make it sell-able.

The problem is not in the plane (or boat), or in the problems they have. The problem is in the market. Your boat and my plane are obsolete models in a crowded market, and our potential buyers are mostly low on cash and on commitment.

I might be open for a trade. Where is this boat? The plane is in Nebraska.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:21   #55
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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Originally Posted by Celestialsailor View Post
You're not going backwards...it's just part of the process. Cut your loss's at any cost and walk away if you have to. Start over and go sailing with your kids again. The lessons learned will be worth the adventure of it all.

Maybe you can trade it for a smaller boat from some poor sucker who is getting pressured to upgrade to a larger boat.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:08   #56
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

No offense to you Mark1977 but I've seen this happening for the past 30 years. It takes a certain type of personality to take on a project on a large scale. It's very common for people to get in over their head trying to follow a dream when they neither have the time or money to follow through.

People trying to live beyond their means is a First World problem. The little train that could syndrome. When they reach the hill their done. I'd follow Celestialsailor's advice, especially is your in your youth. As long as you have your health, a means to support yourself and advance, the dream is still out there. It just takes one step at a time and planning.

I've been working on my vessel for 10 years and it's come a long way and I'm about to finish it up for full time use. Then it's just maintenance, which is also required if you want to stay afloat. But even in the 10 years I was able to take it out in the summers for a short cruise.

What would it take to get it useable again? That's what I'd concentrate on! Then set a priority list and only work on what's important to keep the boat in a mostly useable condition, so that you can enjoy the fruits of your labor. Attitude is the key word. W/O attitude/enthusiasm nothing gets done.

.................................._/)
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:26   #57
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

The hardest thing to convince people is that they won't really save that much money. A project boat should not be about saving money. It should be about fitting and kitting the boat to the owners specifications "at full price" - any savings from putting in one's own labor should be considered a bonus.

True, true, true. I think I could say that only 2 of my boats (both under 27ft) have not been boats that required quite a lot of work. You get to know the systems, but frankly I would have been monetarily better to pay more in the first place and get more.
OP: I dont know your boat, dont know how much you paid and havent seen pics, so I could be way off here.... but if it's a lumpy, problematic Concrete boat, any money put into it is lost. You may be better to strip everything you can off it and abandon it ... and find another boat that will be worth something when you're done... sometimes you just have to cut your losses.... just sayin'.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:41   #58
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It's not a boat if it won't float, motor or sail, a project won't do any or all of these things. I found it easier to work at what I know than try doing work I'am not proficient at. There are a lot of deals on boats out there now so a "project " not selling in a month isn't unusual, as Barnum said there's a sucker born every second and sooner or later one of them will buy it. Nothing we do or say here will change that suckers mind when they have stars in their eyes for any project. Good Luck
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:06   #59
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

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Mark -- what besides the seized engine needs to be fixed? Is the hull completely sound?
If this is your boat, here is my input. This boat is barely more than a hull. The problem with used hulls is that new hulls are not much more expensive, and are more modern, lighter-weight, and more attractive in styling.

It looks like every useful/valuable part has been stripped. I hate to say it, but this boat is a candidate for a scrapyard.

If it were a modern, in-demand model with many desirable features, I think you might find a buyer, but a stripped down out of date concrete hull of this design is just not going to be of much interest because you can buy a much newer boat for a much better price than it would probably take to get this one going.

The scrap value of lead is around .45/lb - though the cost of getting it to a scrapper may be nearly that much.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:49   #60
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Re: I Wish I Never Bought This Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cormorant View Post
Mark -- what besides the seized engine needs to be fixed? Is the hull completely sound?

Is this your boat listed on Kijiji?

Samson c bird 37 ferro cement ...TRADES WELCOME... - Halifax Sailboats For Sale - Kijiji Halifax Canada.

Date Listed 21-Sep-12 Price $4,000.00 Address B3P 2G2
View map For Sale By Owner





Bought a year ago with good intentions of finishing but never found the time. The boat is a project but is in the water now . Comes with a good sail invatory including twin head sails tri sails storm jib main and large jib. Older winches, some blocks ,VHF. It has a diesel Volvo Penta that is seized. Brass portholes and manual windless. There's a lot of odds and ends to go with ,best to call or email . 9024062115
Thats the boat. The hull is sound and smooth. It was well built, you would not be able to tell it is ferro. The interior needs more work and all the deck hard ware needs to be put back on, wiring , plumbing....... It also needs a traveler system.. Hull cleaned..etc..
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