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Old 08-05-2017, 14:58   #1
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I need Canadian's help!

I absolutely do need the help of all Canadians.

I have created a petition to lobby the Canadian government to provide FREE access to both ENC and RNC charts. Its rediculous that the Canadian government is charging (huge amounts, $5400 for all Canadian waters) for access to download these charts. The USA and many other countries have been providing these charts for years.

I have already garnered support of supporters and a member of Parliment.

If you agree that you would like to see these provided free, then please click the link below to sign my registered petition!
https://petitions.parl.gc.ca/en/Peti...etition=e-1084

If you want more information about what I trying to do and why, you can click the link to my blog post.
http://www.svpartyoffive.com/2017/05...litical-debut/
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Old 08-05-2017, 15:28   #2
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

I think it's cool that the US provides free chart downloads.

I've read your case; those are reasonable points. Before I choose to make it an issue, I would want to know a bit more about the current economics of government charts. Specifically- how much revenue the Canadian government currently makes from paper and download charts now, and how much they stand to lose if they decide to give away the downloads.

In the US, are private companies allowed to print the free charts and charge for them?

Let's also keep in mind that the majority of Canadians have no need to keep copies of EVERY Canadian chart. My own outlay for Canadian charts is under $300 so far, I think - 2 Great Lakes and some of the bigger cottage lakes - all paper.

We have more coastline and about 1/10 the population (and tax base) of the US, so I would like to know that it's a reasonable ask before signing on.
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Old 08-05-2017, 15:44   #3
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

Answers below in read!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
I think it's cool that the US provides free chart downloads.

I've read your case; those are reasonable points. Before I choose to make it an issue, I would want to know a bit more about the current economics of government charts. Specifically- how much revenue the Canadian government currently makes from paper and download charts now, and how much they stand to lose if they decide to give away the downloads.
I have no idea as I could not locate those numbers anywhere!
Maybe someone else can. However, I don't think it matters as the amount we stand to gain in tourism, environmental and safety FAR outwieghs any loss in my opinion.




In the US, are private companies allowed to print the free charts and charge for them?
I beleive that they are allowed to print them. However,
the US government also provides this service so the private companies must compete




Let's also keep in mind that the majority of Canadians have no need to keep copies of EVERY Canadian chart. My own outlay for Canadian charts is under $300 so far, I think - 2 Great Lakes and some of the bigger cottage lakes - all paper. I agree %100. We don't NEED to keep copies of all charts. However, would it change peoples planning and behavior if they did have free access to all charts. Ordering printed charts is a pain. Having access to quality charts DIGITAL for planning and potential trips is invalable.
I still beleive paper charts should be charged for at a reasonable rate!.

Understand that I didn't create this petition because I don't like paying for charts. This change would have zero effect on me as we do not boat or cruise in Canadian waters. I created this petition based on feedback I have heard from foreigners while I was cruising! However as a Canadian, I felt I needed to do something!




We have more coastline and about 1/10 the population (and tax base) of the US, so I would like to know that it's a reasonable ask before signing on.
This is for you to decide. We already provide free maps of every piece of Crown land in Canada. Should we not provide the same of our waters? I beleive the government could provide the base charts free under a license agreement. They would be free for private use, but licensed to commercial chart companies to use as a base. This would help offset the costs! (not to mention the increased tourism numbers)
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Old 08-05-2017, 15:59   #4
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

Done, Done and passed along to others
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Old 08-05-2017, 16:26   #5
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

I think that there are far more important things to rail against than the cost of a few charts.
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Old 08-05-2017, 17:08   #6
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

Done !
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Old 08-05-2017, 17:16   #7
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

I signed. My view is these charts are already paid for via our taxes. They should be viewed as a public good, akin to roads or Justin's perfectly quaffed hair.
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Old 08-05-2017, 17:38   #8
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

Greetings and welcome aboard the CF, Davepf.
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Old 08-05-2017, 19:15   #9
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

Done.
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Old 08-05-2017, 19:27   #10
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

Signed, and I'll forward to some non forum members I know. I don't see a downside. If they've stopped funding light houses, the least they can do is give us the charts!

The word nautical is misspelled in the petition. It says "nauticle".

I don't know if you can edit it now that's it's being used.

Cheers.
Paul.
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Old 08-05-2017, 19:36   #11
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

Something to consider

US coastline - 20,000 km
Canadian coastline - 200,000 km

Canadian population 35,000,000
US population 321,000,000

There is a 100X more population per km of coastline in the US than Canada.

If you wish to be "legal" in Canada you will need paper charts and publications or a redundant ECDIS system and evidence of training in that system. A chartplotter is not an ECDIS; neither is a tablet, smartphone or computer.
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Old 08-05-2017, 19:36   #12
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

Signed. It is not just charts. The government also charges for detailed census information. It just seems to be a different attitude to the US and perhaps other countries as well. In Canada it seems to be a user pay approach while in the US it is the idea that the information has already been paid for by the people so they should have access to it.
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Old 08-05-2017, 19:47   #13
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

British Admiralty charts are also copyrighted and have a copyright fee.
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Old 09-05-2017, 07:58   #14
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
British Admiralty charts are also copyrighted and have a copyright fee.
In fact Canadian charts encoding is done by a private compagny, and I doubt that they will give them away.
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Old 09-05-2017, 08:19   #15
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Re: I need Canadian's help!

Forgive me if I am wrong, but it is my understanding that US government agencies (such as NOAA) cannot copyright their creations, thereby competing with private interests. After taxes, their services are available for free.

I agree to a point that Canadian boaters are paying twice for the privilege of nautical charts, once as a taxpayer and once as a boater, but there are many Canadian government services that are set up this way.
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