Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

[MidlifeCrisis]

Ok Question answering time...

Toledo Ohio, in the cool and hip downtown area. A block away from the Baseball field, and a brand new music venue. I think I have something less than 3 years left of fast appreciation on the real estate, as I don't think the design committee's plans are sustainable in Toledo Ohio. I am socially involved with the business community, and can see trouble ahead. The city seems determined to move the small business people out of Toledo, and replace them with corporate operations. But, they might simply be incompetent/delusional with regards to Toledos potential. I realize that statement is loaded with all sorts of politics. I know... going through design committee for new operations is significantly more challenging now than when I started.

My valuation of the property is based upon a very simple commercial real estate estimation. I collect 1% of the value of the property every month. I have 15 apartments, and two commercial street level locations. They are all occupied. I know what I have into these properties, and almost all of that value is appreciation. So yeah... Uncle Sams cut will be on the order of $450k

Ive done as much of the work on these two buildings myself as possible. I am pretty sure with six months of classes to fill in the gaps at the local cc, I could get a carpenters, plumber and electricians licence, all at the same time, if I wanted. When I was younger, I was a truck driver, so the idea of doing maintenance on a diesel engine does not frighten me, short of doing a rebuild. Although I have dabbled as a machinist as well, so with a couple of good books, and the internet, I suspect I could rebuild a diesel engine in a pinch.

The only skill I think I lack for doing all my own maintenance and repair on a modern sailboat is fiberglass repair.

Wanting to scuba is almost as much about wanting to scrape the hull bottom myself (I imagine it is almost analogous to mowing the lawn?) because being a landlord, father, business owner, and broke the first 35 years of my life has trained me to be frugal to the point of being cheap at time... I buy jeans at the used clothing store for example, because used jeans seem to hold up better than new jeans.

If I were to buy a used boat, I would hold out travel, seek out, a Super Maramu (I loled at the suggestion) because that is a boat that is used successfully to do exactly what I am doing now.

As I think about it critically... Yes the Oceanus 60 has those exposed tillers... It is probably totally unsuitable for the adventure I want to go on. Yeah, I wondered about breaking that rudder off on a reef as well.

I won't be alone. I wouldn't even consider doing this alone.

My son has indicated that he would love to come along. I don't place a lot of importance on schools in the business of education. At 15 I am confident I could motivate him to GED before we go. I can't imagine "has traveled the world, and picked up multiple foreign languages" as looking bad on a college entrance essay(he seems more suited to trades to me anyhow). Additionally, I have a bff (to the point of being family) who is also a chef, who would abandon his whole life here in Toledo, is also a capable carpenter, and can repair anything. But, I don't want to fill the entire boat with crew from Toledo, I imagine meeting people along the way.

So anyhow... Ive decided probably my first step is to head down to the marina and start meeting people there. Even though... This area doesn't seem to have a sailing community, but if you look at a satellite picture of the western Lake Erie basin, I suspect you can figure out why.

I think I answered all the questions... Did I miss any?

Edit: Wow grammar goes out the window quickly with that first beer after work.

[Juho]

Since the seriously cruising oriented Super Maramus are close to what you are looking for, I propose to take a look at some of my personal favourites too . If you want to spend all your budget on a new boat, Nauricat 515 (sloop) and Nauticat 525 (ketch) might be worth a quick look.

Nauticat Pilothouse sailing yachts

[ol1970]

Originally Posted by MidlifeCrisis

Ok Question answering time...

Toledo Ohio, in the cool and hip downtown area. A block away from the Baseball field, and a brand new music venue. I think I have something less than 3 years left of fast appreciation on the real estate, as I don't think the design committee's plans are sustainable in Toledo Ohio. I am socially involved with the business community, and can see trouble ahead. The city seems determined to move the small business people out of Toledo, and replace them with corporate operations. But, they might simply be incompetent/delusional with regards to Toledos potential. I realize that statement is loaded with all sorts of politics. I know... going through design committee for new operations is significantly more challenging now than when I started.

My valuation of the property is based upon a very simple commercial real estate estimation. I collect 1% of the value of the property every month. I have 15 apartments, and two commercial street level locations. They are all occupied. I know what I have into these properties, and almost all of that value is appreciation. So yeah... Uncle Sams cut will be on the order of $450k.

Tropical Toledo eh? Well the commercial properties I sold were in the exotic Metro Detroit area so I can relate. Truth be told, if I were to have held on 18 more months I could have made a ton more, but you can never perfectly time the market. What I can tell you though is you probably know the local market better than anyone and I would suggest trusting your gut. Having close to 100% of your net worth tied up in a single asset is usually not a good thing. Both of us are not spring chickens, but have a long horizon ahead of us hopefully to enjoy the fruits of our hard work. When the real estate markets turn again (and they most definitely will because stuff just goes in cycles), you could be "stuck" with a property that you cannot sell or are kicking yourself because you might be waiting 7-8 years for the next time the opportunity presents itself to exit. If you exit and values go up another 30% don't sweat it...you won the game already. Also, keep some powder dry since you know the local real estate market so well that you can swoop in during the next panic and repeat the process.

Regarding the boat, I agree with people that you'll get the handle of whatever you choose, what you don't want is for it to feel like a burden or stress you financially in any way. Regardless of the type or size of boat keep it simple, then sunsets are the same whatever you are sitting on and my experience has been that the sailing community are and extremely accepting bunch if you are humble, helpful, and courteous.

[gamayun]

^^^^^ Really nice and helpful response, OL. Very good advice about making decisions when playing the real estate market, and not letting it get to you either way.

[cwyckham]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

With a budget of $800K why not explore cats in 45-50' range? Spacewise it'll be at least as spacious as a 60' mono but living on it with a teenager will probably be more accommodating, especially privacy wise (you're not celibate 7 years after the divorce, are you? ).

If I were in your shoes I'd do the following, in that order:

1. Sign up for an ASA full certification course all the way to Master's 50/60
2. Charter 50'+ mono for 10-14 days
3. Charter 45-50' cat for 10-14 days
4. Buy a 25-30' "training boat" which will introduce you to all kinds of aspects of boat ownership, maintenance and repairs OR if a sailing club is nearby join one for couple of seasons not just to learn but also to meet and greet other sailors, get a feel of different boats, etc.
5. After a year or two of ownership/sailing club decide on exactly the boat which will fit your needs/wants/goals.

The problem I see with plunging into $800K new boat purchase is that you a) will still have to fit it out, probably another $100K and b) adding sales taxes, etc. you're now looking at close to $1mil investment. Which if you change your mind for any reason within short time, will only be worth $600-700K at best, less 10% broker's commission.

On the other hand if you spend $20-30K for a 25-30 footer and decide to sell it 2 years later you will recoup at least half of that, if not 75%. Not to mention that owning one will help you get a better handle on your "big boat" requirements and will save you $$ on the next purchase even if just by helping you get something you will keep many years as opposed to just a few.

Yes! This is the plan. Learn to sail. Buy a learner boat and learn what you like in a boat and how to own and maintain your own boat, then splash out on something big and fancy once you know what you actually like in a boat.

[chuckr]

Humm -- was going to by pass this but to many gloxxy mags and videos can make this look like magic --
magic for us was yesterday when we ran across the high school graduating class on the island of Bozcaada Turkey - but it was not magic getting here when we were bashing into 3' seas on a 2 sec interval and 20k of wind on the nose for a few hours.

Suggestion may be to learn to sail via asa then go down island and charter a few times - you can afford it - and see how much you like it and if you are lucky God will give you some really crappy weather for a day or so and then see how much you like it -
I grew up on a farm in Ohio and know the weather - not even close

chuck and patty as we sit trying to get north to Istanbul as the winds are now about 15-20 out of the north with one good day tomorrow then the front comes through and winds go south from 15 to 30 for a couple of days before they go north again -
Bashing north along the Turkish coast is so magical

[Celestialsailor]

Another suggestion might be to take maybe 10% of that wealth and do something useful with it and give to a meaningful charity.

[mrohr]

Newbie in big new boat,big dreams but unwilling to walk before he can run?

Recipe here to turn new into old ; dreams into disappointment ;bravado into blood;

bank account into bankruptcy.......try some of the go small advice above and learn....you don't know what you don't know.....once you get some realtime experience and survive your mistakes you will be in an enviable position to begin actualizing your dream. There will still be plenty of sellers waiting to relive you of those hard won dollars.

...............................luv you all...............mike............................ ..

[MidlifeCrisis]

Originally Posted by mrohr

Newbie in big new boat,big dreams but unwilling to walk before he can run?

Recipe here to turn new into old ; dreams into disappointment ;bravado into blood;

bank account into bankruptcy.......try some of the go small advice above and learn....you don't know what you don't know.....once you get some realtime experience and survive your mistakes you will be in an enviable position to begin actualizing your dream. There will still be plenty of sellers waiting to relive you of those hard won dollars.

...............................luv you all...............mike............................ ..

I have a couple of years before I can go. Drove over to boat restoration company here in town, chatted them up. They are going to introduce me to some local sailors, and I am going to learn boat maintenance starting from sweeping the floors.

Are those humble enough beginnings?

[Don C L]

If we come across a bit harsh it may be because we have seen folks with money but little experience buy large boats and then find out they don't like sailing. I know I have. I knew of a gentleman, quite wealthy, who had always longed to sail the seas. He bought a large beautiful boat, spent a small fortune outfitting it and headed out. Within a couple days he was back, recovering from sea-sickness and he listed the boat for sale, at a loss of course. Being very wealthy, the loss probably did not bother him too much. It's your money, I think we are trying to help you not to waste it. In your research I think it is wise to ask, "who are the most experienced sailors in the harbor?" and go over and look at his or her boat, and ask them a few questions. Often, regardless of how much money they have, they do not have the largest boat in the harbor. That said, I know you have bigger goals that may require a bigger platform, say for diving. So in pursuing those goals, yes you may need a bigger boat along with more crew.

[Celestialsailor]

It hasn't begun yet, so it's still talk.

[MidlifeCrisis]

Funny update. Found a peer that has sailed around the world, and he does exactly what I do about two blocks away from me.

[vjm]

I think zeroing in on any particular boat right now is premature. You don't need to be sweeping floors on land, you need to start sailing to see if you even like it. My suggestions would be to take your daughter and do a liveaboard ASA 101, 103, 104 course with someplace like Bluewater Sailing School.

If you actually like the sailing, then charter for a year or two. You are trying to explore questions like: Do you like coastal sailing? Do you like living aboard? Do you like bluewater sailing? Do you like long pAssages? Do you like cats or monos? How important is performance/pointing to you? At what size do you feel that you are beginning to be overmatched? Do you like singlehanding?

After a program of variety like that you won't need to ask anyone what boat is right for you. It's like asking who you should marry or how to raise kids. People can give suggestions but ultimately you have to know yourself and your preferences to figure out what will work for you.

If you want to sail, start doing it now. If you are dying for a boat today, do the ASA courses and get something you will actually use for how you actually sail in the next five years. Don't spend a lot on it, but do buy condition rather than size or pedigree.

Good luck!

[MidlifeCrisis]

Wew Lads, Then this just became a real thing. This major road improvement goes past both my properties.

City of Toledo uses eminent domain to acquire land for Anthony W - Toledo News Now, News, Weather, Sports, Toledo, OH

[Jim Cate]

I guess that's good news, fiscally, so good onya.

So, have you done any sailing at all yet? What has happened in the months since you first posted?

Getting time on the water, under sail, is so much more important than any other factor in accumulating the knowledge base you need... I sure hope that you have used the summer months to get started down this path.

Getting involved with the restoration company is ok, but with your hands on background I don't think boat maintenance will be your downfall. But buying a big and expensive boat with little or no sailing experience is just a bad idea... for you and for all the other sailors in the area. Heed the repeated advice to get a learner boat, whether dinghy or smaller keel boat and get sailing, hopefully with your child on board (or in that other Laser, beating you to the windward mark and laughing like hell).

Let us know how it is going, mate!

Jim