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Old 03-05-2016, 13:37   #16
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
edit, and about racing, I have a good friend I have known since elementary school who bought a Freya 39 and sailed the south Pacific. He came home and had kind of lost the urge to head back out. For fun he got into racing J-24s and loved it so much and got so good at it he ended up going to the J-24 Nationals. He still lives on his Freya too. So you never know where your impulses can lead...
For me, racing is the best (umm, only ) way to learn to get good at sail trim and close quartering. Though it's harder to be competitive when you live on your boat, too.

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Old 03-05-2016, 14:11   #17
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

Originally Posted by gamayun View Post
For me, racing is the best (umm, only ) way to learn to get good at sail trim and close quartering. Though it's harder to be competitive when you live on your boat, too.
Yes, there are a lot of cruisers who never seem to care about sail trim, nor condition. I don't get it, you'd think they'd want to get really good. But i've seen spinnakers I could put a finger through, and 20 yr. old dacron sails with unbelievably poor shape. It's a very individual thing. We found lower level round the buoys racing fun, and even more challenging in the ocean. SF Bay was a lovely place to learn to sail, lots going on all the time.

To the OP:

To start with a 60 foot boat, eh. Well the first boat I sailed on was about 23', the next, a 30. Everyone told me i'd be a better sailor if i had started in dinghies, because they give you instant response to what you do. From that experience you can learn to be intuitive about what's happening with your boat. The larger sailing platform of a 60' boat is far more stable, hence might be less exciting for you. If you take classes, you will probably be learning on smaller boats. 60 feet is a lot to maneuver competently. There will be archived threads here about using lines to help you get in and out of tight berths. See if you can find them and start thinking about how rudders, water, wind, and current interact.

A personal comment: in your shoes, I'd have concern how to help my son transition from late adolescence to adulthood while you yourself are in the midst of a huge change.

With a new boat, a lot of your attention will be on commissioning the boat, and this will mean finding tradespeople who are competent and amenable. They are not all created equal. Even with new boats, things fail, require replacement or repair. Unless you hire a project manager you can trust, the commissioning is a big deal. Just keep remembering, the ocean is not humans natural environment, as it is for a seal, and the integrity of the vessel is essential, for the wellbeing of those who sale on her. That is why people have been gently trying to steer you towards more the "Bentley" or "Rolls" kinds of boats. Size alone does not determine what a good ocean going vessel is.

All for today.


Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
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Old 03-05-2016, 14:20   #18
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

Hi, if you are going to sail a boat offshore, be careful about what sort of boat you buy. In my humble opinion, do not buy a boat with an unprotected spade rudder. Do a google search. Beneteau rudder. When the rudder falls off, they are hard to steer.
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Old 03-05-2016, 14:25   #19
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

oh man, that budget

you can get amazing boats for 50k and under, no need to go hogwild
S/V Gudgeon
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Old 03-05-2016, 15:11   #20
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

It seems you can afford many kind of boats, but so far you didn't give much information on your preferences.

Racing is not a key target, so the boat should probably be cruising oriented (strong and steady, not necessary fastest). I guess you want a monohull since you didn't mention catamarans.

How many beds / cabins do you need? Is 60' a must or are also smaller boats ok? If you will sail the boat alone, a smaller boat could be easier to handle (e.g. because the size of the sails).

Fishing and diving should be ok in most boats, but you probably want lots of storage space. Maybe also a swimming platform or some other means to climb to the boat with diving gear.

Your dinghy could be inflatable, so it could be stored inside on long passages. Or do you want a hard dinghy?

Do you prefer a strong and expensive all weather adventure oriented boat, or do you want to invest all the money in size. Beneteau maxmizes overall size and living space. Some people already proposed more specialized boats for you. Best quality or standard stuff? New, or are also used boats ok?

How about the overall architecture then? Do you want a large master cabin(s), or are small cabins sufficient? Aft cockpit vs. centre cockpit? Pilot house or hard dodger vs. flat flush deck? Sloop or ketch? Sporty vs. strong keel and rudder?
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Old 03-05-2016, 16:13   #21
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

With a budget of $800K why not explore cats in 45-50' range? Spacewise it'll be at least as spacious as a 60' mono but living on it with a teenager will probably be more accommodating, especially privacy wise (you're not celibate 7 years after the divorce, are you? ).

If I were in your shoes I'd do the following, in that order:

1. Sign up for an ASA full certification course all the way to Master's 50/60
2. Charter 50'+ mono for 10-14 days
3. Charter 45-50' cat for 10-14 days
4. Buy a 25-30' "training boat" which will introduce you to all kinds of aspects of boat ownership, maintenance and repairs OR if a sailing club is nearby join one for couple of seasons not just to learn but also to meet and greet other sailors, get a feel of different boats, etc.
5. After a year or two of ownership/sailing club decide on exactly the boat which will fit your needs/wants/goals.

The problem I see with plunging into $800K new boat purchase is that you a) will still have to fit it out, probably another $100K and b) adding sales taxes, etc. you're now looking at close to $1mil investment. Which if you change your mind for any reason within short time, will only be worth $600-700K at best, less 10% broker's commission.

On the other hand if you spend $20-30K for a 25-30 footer and decide to sell it 2 years later you will recoup at least half of that, if not 75%. Not to mention that owning one will help you get a better handle on your "big boat" requirements and will save you $$ on the next purchase even if just by helping you get something you will keep many years as opposed to just a few.
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Old 04-05-2016, 04:54   #22
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

As a neophyte sailor on a 60 ft Boat is an outrageous option. Plus you'll be putting 800k down a rat hole. I don't think its financially a sound plan. At that price youmost like will not stick with it.

IMHO then best course of action would be to buy a 30 ft Boat, join the local yacht club and sail it for a year or so with your daughter. Kids are funny, I am fortunate that my 3 boys are all competitive sailors and are addicted to sailing. Some of my friends kids aren't really that interested. It so sad to see dad out there by himself because the family isn't involved in the spirit of sailing.

If you want your daughter to get involved get her into laser or c420 sailing at the junior level she will learn so much and it will ignite a passion. My boys and their friends are always on my boat for sailing and regattas. They all started with junior sailing. JSALIS

There is a skill level needed to be learned through experience that needs to be attained. Sailing a boat is not like getting into an RV and just going. That has been discused many times here and I am a strong believer that people who go out and buy a big boat to learn how to sail are a danger to themselves as well as other boaters.

Good luck and fairwind's you are starting on the right path just notch it down a bit to start to be successful. Otherwise you are setting youself up for a huge dissappintment and failure.
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Old 04-05-2016, 05:21   #23
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

Originally Posted by MidlifeCrisis View Post
My budget is something like this...

800k for the boat.
800k for maintenance on the boat over the next 10 years.
400k for a cruising fund for the next 10 years.
1,000k left in bonds to pay for my reentry when cruising ends.

Should I sell the apartments? Is it realistically possible to manage apartments while I am island hopping in the Philippines?
If it were me, I'd go out and buy an Antares catamaran. They hold their value really well. Antares Yachts: Building the World's Best Liveaboard Catamaran

Secondly, we own apartments as well. In fact, my wife is on-site today changing out air filters. The big question is can you find a management company you can trust? We self-manage now with the assistance of an on-site leasing manager that works directly for us. We got screwed by our first management company. Well, they did a great job, but an employee embezzled...still waiting for the court settlement. Our property is a 2 hour drive away, so we 'remote manage'. My wife is on site once a quarter, but doesn't have to be. Many people remote manage their properties, just a matter of systems set up, are they big enough, etc. We have 24 units and if I had to do it again, I'd go 80+ to make it worth remote management.

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Old 04-05-2016, 05:35   #24
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

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Old 04-05-2016, 06:15   #25
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

Originally Posted by MidlifeCrisis View Post

Should I sell the apartments? Is it realistically possible to manage apartments while I am island hopping in the Philippines?
I'm in The Philippines now, come here every year. Not seen many keel boats here Island hopping. Think I saw one anchored out 100 yards or more a couple of years ago. Very shallow 100+ yards from shore in most places.

I've heard there are some sailboats around southern Negros, Davao and Manila bay. Others may know the circuit here. Also IMO, not a place to bring anything expensive. Would have to watch it 24/7. Probably be more of a hassle than it's worth.

Many other reasons to give the Philippines a visit. Easy to find a nice room on the beach for $30 and get a local to take you around on a bunka boat, good fun. Cheap beer too.
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Old 04-05-2016, 06:20   #26
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

Hey there midlife, I'm a sort of similar to you in that we are very close in age and I've recently sold my commercial real estate holdings in a city I've lived in for 25+ years. I also had the opportunity to sell my business so for I have been "free" for almost 18 months now. The first piece of advice I will tell you is to take your time...your life is sort of like steering the a huge boat, it takes some time from once you turn the wheel for the boat to start heading in the direction you want it. A few serious questions/steps:

1) I assume you are considering liquidating your $3M investment to fund these adventures. First off, you need to analyze these apartments from a pure investment standpoint. Also, do you have other investments or assets? If this is your sole nest egg, and you've built it to this point and you think the market has sort of topped out, I would absolutely sell and diversify your net worth. If the apartments are debt free and in a super high desirable area with great cash flow...I would hang on and get busy saving & building up a nest egg outside of that investment.
2) This is my rule of thumb, and I'll get lambasted for suggesting this her on this forum but hey it is the internet and I get to type whatever I like...Never have more than 10% of your net worth tied up in depreciating assets. Not knowing if you have other piles of money other than your apartment investment you are going to liquidate, so that could play into what your budget should be.
3) Do the "real" math...the first thing you need to consider if you sell is what do you really walk away with? What is your basis in the apartments and what is the profit that you are going to have to pay capital gains on? Let's say you've made 1.5 mil off the investment...well Uncle Sam and your state are going to get their cut as take that into consideration as well. Oh, you could do a 1031 exchange to kick those taxes down the road, but then you don't have the $3m to go spend and live on.
4) Start simple, but do get started. Like others suggest, get a small boat to practice on, charter, take ASA classes, volunteer to crew.

So in summary what I would probably do in your shoes (granted not knowing all of the details), if the property is in a great area, let it ride, save every nickel you can to buy a boat. During this time get the experience , learning and practice in...that is honestly part of the fun! Then once you've got all this knowledge you can make a very informed decision on if you want to go whole hog and get the big boat. Hell it would take 6-12 months to get a transaction done on your investment anyway. I understand completely the thought process you are going through, every time I get too excited I just tell myself the "young bull old bull story" and then get back on course. (if you don't know the story you can google it)

Good luck!
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Old 04-05-2016, 06:45   #27
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

Lots of advice to buy a smaller, older boat.
I would go the newer bigger boat, new is in the budget.
Yes it will be as scary as all get out the first few times you take it out! But soon it will feel like any boat.

60ft mono/42-45 ft Cat fill a in that budget.

Obviously, as Dirty Harry said: 'A mans gotta know his limitations', so you gotta know yours and surmount them.

But that's not difficult nor expensive.

Yes, many sailing schools let you learn on a dinghy (a Laser would be fun) where you rent the boat and do classes.
They also do keel boat classes; you can go racing as crew on bigger boats at the local sailing club for free; you can do your courses; you can charter boats in the Caribbean similar to what you intend to buy.
It's all reasonably inexpensive to your budget.
Its all achievable to a person with brains who puts a bit of time and effort into it.

Then you will have your excitement and adventure with a good background of knowledge. As they say, its not rocket science, its not doing life saving surgery... even the Vikings could sail, the Americans have won the Americas Cup, and 6 year old kids can well sail Optimist dinghies.

Know your limitations but don't let them be limitations - learn your way out of them

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Notes on a Circumnavigation.

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Old 04-05-2016, 08:41   #28
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
I would go the newer bigger boat, new is in the budget.
And old is in the magic __/)_ _/)__ __/)_/)__
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Old 04-05-2016, 10:28   #29
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

Take a look at Amel 54 or 55
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Old 04-05-2016, 12:58   #30
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Re: Hi all, First Post. What boat should I get?

You don't say where you are. Is there sailing nearby? If there is not, can you travel a short distance to go sailing? Join a sailing club with your 15 year old and learn the ropes together. Then maybe try racing or cruising together on a smaller boat. He/she may not like being stuck with a parent in a linear space of less than 30 feet. (how do I know - ). Once they're over 25 or so, things change back.

Learning how to sail and dock a boat of 30 to 40 feet would be a great start to getting a larger one for the longer term. The forces on a larger boat can come up pretty quickly if don't anticipate them, so learning about those on a smaller boat is generally a little more prudent.

Have fun whatever you decide - and make sure the 15 yr old has fun also.

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