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Old 12-03-2015, 21:41   #61
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

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Originally Posted by SthnJeff View Post
Just to provide some education to our Australian Neighbours in the West Island, Australia was recognised as an independant Nation on 1st Jan 1901.

You Head of State (like ours in NZ) is of course the Queen. You may be referring to becoming a "Republic" which is of course s differnt kettle of fish and one which was voted on in a Referendum a few years ago with 55% choosing the Status quo iirc.


there's always someone who has to be so serious

We lost our independence again in 1903 when women got the vote

Though some say we lost it when Tony Abbott became prime minister in September 2013.

And I'm a big pro republiclican, but even I voted against Jonny Howards tanked Referendum in 1999.
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Old 12-03-2015, 22:12   #62
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

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Just to provide some education to our Australian Neighbours in the West Island, Australia was recognised as an independant Nation on 1st Jan 1901.
Not even close, Jeff! You're out by a human lifespan or more.


First, try using active voice rather than passive voice when you think and write: who recognised Australia as independent in 1901? Certainly not the Brits, nor the Aus govt. And who recognises Aus as independent now? I can list a dozen polities that would not.


Second, let's look at the facts:


1901: the colonial states of the great south land federated to form Australia as a dominion of the British Empire.


1931: the British parliament passed the Statute of Westminster to cut most of the legal-constitutional controls of the British parliament over the Australian govt


1942: the Australian parliament adopted the 1931 Statute of Westminster, and backdated it to 1939


1986: the British parliament passed the Australia Act 1986 (actually two Acts under the umbrella title) to end all power of the British parliament to make law in Australia. The Australia Act 1986 also ended legal appeal from Australians to the British Privy Council. The Australia Act 1986 also gave Australia formal independence from Britain in its foreign relations.


So you might say that Australia gained full self-governing independence from Britain in 1986. But that's only the formal or superficial aspect.


In terms of the actual behaviour of the Australian government, I doubt that it's ever demonstrated any real independence (in contrast to NZ, which did show a brief spark of independence once over the issue of nuclear-fuelled and nuclear-armed vessels).


With respect to the Australian economy, it has always been owned by non-Australians. And probably always will.


With respect to Australian society and culture, they have always been dominated by foreign ideas and practices. And it is clear that the internet data and telephone calls of Australians are given, by the Australian govt, to the US and the UK. The Aus govt is moving to gather and store data so it can guarantee that the data of future Australians will always be gifted to the US and the UK.


So tell me, Jeff, about your NZ independence today: To whom does all your e-mail and telephone data go, despite the disorganised mumblings of your elected prime minister? Is NZ independent? Who controls the NZ economy?


Al
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Old 13-03-2015, 02:54   #63
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

wow! Moment again.
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Old 14-03-2015, 07:34   #64
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

Interesting thread. Just the twists, turns and tangents. I wish our Govt, the media empire, would stop and realize that their polices, maybe well intentioned, anger about everyone but the most patriotic zealots.

No one seems more paranoid and fearful than those in office in the US or acting as agents of the U.S. That fear is passed down the line and you see it everywhere. Sad really. If you were boarded at gunpoint for no reason by well trained athletic young soldiers who also needed to point a loaded gun at you who is the one with most fear and anger inside? Pity them it's sad that is their training vs just learning to do their job without fear and intimidation. Making enemies is no way to be more safe. This is a problem from the top down.

Why do I comment this way? Just my recently finding my own cure for this sickness. My family moved onto our sailboat in a bit more than six months ago in the Caribbean. We were so thankful to see the less American TV, news you follow and the more you just experience people from outside the U.S. personally. We found the rest of the world is not scared or fearful and their governments do not run on fear. It shows that from the top down in the officers and citizes. I can say I wave at everyone and so far it's my fellow Americans most likely to look right at me waving and turn away. Waves cost nothing to give so it's their loss not mine to turn away and feel I was not worth the simple cordiality. I also say hello, good morning, good afternoon to everyone I meet. Guess who is the most likely to avoid eye contact and thus the reason to say hello back? Each time I just feel a bit sad for them for they are so ill the idea of being cordial was withheld because of simply looking at me. Even the most hardened local will reply back cordially if you initiate. They are just likely not expecting cordiality from an American. Forgivable.

America is afraid, feels isolated, feels separate from everyone else because that is the message broadcast to everyone. It is infectious and when people insult and demean or point a gun at you they do so out of fear. It is sad to live that way. Why not try harder to not spread it here in this global community. Spread sameness and cordiality with other humans. Honestly I feel here, like everywhere outside the U.S. there are only a few people truly showing signs of this sickness.

Not all govt agents or citizens are infected either. In our experiences living out here we have not met any US official afflicted and most everyone waves back and is cordial. Our customs interactions went very smoothly and without insults or demeaning behavior. Maybe it helps to show sympathy for those that do aim guns at you, demean you, look down at you for truly they are just afraid or sick and need your support to get well.

I am writing this to thank the OP for posting a positive message to share and make my comments to say our American fear is curable. The hate it creates is curable I am a survivor and since I am not special this cure could cure anyone. Stop believing the news, better stop watching it. Go through the world with an attitude to make friends, with everyone, not isolate yourself and guard against hidden enemies. When you run across those afflicted forgive them for they know not what they do. Wave more, smile more, judge less and get to know people.

We are all really the same species sharing this not so big planet together. Try more to act in sameness not separateness and the symptoms, and sickness will go away.


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Old 14-03-2015, 07:45   #65
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Hats Off to the Royal Navy

Onefastdaddy, a very telling post.

To me the post 9/11 reaction is the cause of it all. The reaction was and continues to be far beyond what was necessary. In the intervening period, the us gov has found it simpler to use the culture of fear or even fear mongering itself, to induce policies it would otherwise never consider. This culture then pervades all officials and every encounter must now assumed to be threatening.

I suppose this was always coming. I lived in the US pre 9/11 , in a small neighbourhood. It as delightfully free of the concerns other countries had. Cars were left unlocked , badness occurred elsewhere and sure everyone loved Americans.

The change caused an exaggerated inland looking to come to the fore. People became fearful of their surroundings or their neighbours etc. because the great mass of people simply don't understand or bother to understand the greater geopolitical position, they are then exposed to being exploited by that lack of understanding.

While the situation is sometimes not as bad in other countries , many other countries of similar economic standing to the US and comparable living standards have remained more open and less concerned about safety, perhaps because their populace have lived with some fear always.

One hopes that this national attitude of fear will fade in the US in time, but I don't think so.

It's like an innocence lost,

Dave


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Old 14-03-2015, 08:13   #66
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by onefastdaddy View Post
Interesting thread. Just the twists, turns and tangents. I wish our Govt, the media empire, would stop and realize that their polices, maybe well intentioned, anger about everyone but the most patriotic zealots.

No one seems more paranoid and fearful than those in office in the US or acting as agents of the U.S. That fear is passed down the line and you see it everywhere. Sad really. If you were boarded at gunpoint for no reason by well trained athletic young soldiers who also needed to point a loaded gun at you who is the one with most fear and anger inside? Pity them it's sad that is their training vs just learning to do their job without fear and intimidation. Making enemies is no way to be more safe. This is a problem from the top down.

Why do I comment this way? Just my recently finding my own cure for this sickness. My family moved onto our sailboat in a bit more than six months ago in the Caribbean. We were so thankful to see the less American TV, news you follow and the more you just experience people from outside the U.S. personally. We found the rest of the world is not scared or fearful and their governments do not run on fear. It shows that from the top down in the officers and citizes. I can say I wave at everyone and so far it's my fellow Americans most likely to look right at me waving and turn away. Waves cost nothing to give so it's their loss not mine to turn away and feel I was not worth the simple cordiality. I also say hello, good morning, good afternoon to everyone I meet. Guess who is the most likely to avoid eye contact and thus the reason to say hello back? Each time I just feel a bit sad for them for they are so ill the idea of being cordial was withheld because of simply looking at me. Even the most hardened local will reply back cordially if you initiate. They are just likely not expecting cordiality from an American. Forgivable.

America is afraid, feels isolated, feels separate from everyone else because that is the message broadcast to everyone. It is infectious and when people insult and demean or point a gun at you they do so out of fear. It is sad to live that way. Why not try harder to not spread it here in this global community. Spread sameness and cordiality with other humans. Honestly I feel here, like everywhere outside the U.S. there are only a few people truly showing signs of this sickness.

Not all govt agents or citizens are infected either. In our experiences living out here we have not met any US official afflicted and most everyone waves back and is cordial. Our customs interactions went very smoothly and without insults or demeaning behavior. Maybe it helps to show sympathy for those that do aim guns at you, demean you, look down at you for truly they are just afraid or sick and need your support to get well.

I am writing this to thank the OP for posting a positive message to share and make my comments to say our American fear is curable. The hate it creates is curable I am a survivor and since I am not special this cure could cure anyone. Stop believing the news, better stop watching it. Go through the world with an attitude to make friends, with everyone, not isolate yourself and guard against hidden enemies. When you run across those afflicted forgive them for they know not what they do. Wave more, smile more, judge less and get to know people.

We are all really the same species sharing this not so big planet together. Try more to act in sameness not separateness and the symptoms, and sickness will go away.


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We all have our experiences, but generally I have found most Americans to be friendly, polite and cordial. Then again, I have found that to be true for most nationalities. The only 'issue' we have experienced is a rather immature radio procedure practised by the US Navy who expect other boats to levitate out of their way.
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Old 14-03-2015, 17:07   #67
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Onefastdaddy, a very telling post.

To me the post 9/11 reaction is the cause of it all. The reaction was and continues to be far beyond what was necessary. In the intervening period, the us gov has found it simpler to use the culture of fear or even fear mongering itself, to induce policies it would otherwise never consider. This culture then pervades all officials and every encounter must now assumed to be threatening.

I suppose this was always coming. I lived in the US pre 9/11 , in a small neighbourhood. It as delightfully free of the concerns other countries had. Cars were left unlocked , badness occurred elsewhere and sure everyone loved Americans.

The change caused an exaggerated inland looking to come to the fore. People became fearful of their surroundings or their neighbours etc. because the great mass of people simply don't understand or bother to understand the greater geopolitical position, they are then exposed to being exploited by that lack of understanding.

While the situation is sometimes not as bad in other countries , many other countries of similar economic standing to the US and comparable living standards have remained more open and less concerned about safety, perhaps because their populace have lived with some fear always.

One hopes that this national attitude of fear will fade in the US in time, but I don't think so.

It's like an innocence lost,

Dave


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a good summation
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Old 15-03-2015, 16:40   #68
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pirate Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Onefastdaddy, a very telling post.

To me the post 9/11 reaction is the cause of it all. The reaction was and continues to be far beyond what was necessary. In the intervening period, the us gov has found it simpler to use the culture of fear or even fear mongering itself, to induce policies it would otherwise never consider. This culture then pervades all officials and every encounter must now assumed to be threatening.

I suppose this was always coming. I lived in the US pre 9/11 , in a small neighbourhood. It as delightfully free of the concerns other countries had. Cars were left unlocked , badness occurred elsewhere and sure everyone loved Americans.

The change caused an exaggerated inland looking to come to the fore. People became fearful of their surroundings or their neighbours etc. because the great mass of people simply don't understand or bother to understand the greater geopolitical position, they are then exposed to being exploited by that lack of understanding.

While the situation is sometimes not as bad in other countries , many other countries of similar economic standing to the US and comparable living standards have remained more open and less concerned about safety, perhaps because their populace have lived with some fear always.

One hopes that this national attitude of fear will fade in the US in time, but I don't think so.

It's like an innocence lost,

Dave


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Innocence was lost 60yrs ago.. the only difference from the Mcarthy era is this time the bad guys were small enough to bomb.. unlike the 'Reds under the beds..'
Tho' it came close in the 60's.. its how the guys at the top maintain the status quo.. a frightened people are easy to mould.
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Old 16-03-2015, 10:33   #69
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

How dare you criticize the compliant, uneducated, brain dead masses in the USA? . . . They are always right . . . just ask them . . . especially when they vote . . . wait . . . I think I hear them in the distance calling . . . . Baaaaaaaaaaaaa,Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa . . . anyone for rack of lamb Allemande?
Captain Rognvald, in earnest, avoiding the stampede. By the way, this nicely ties in with the original discussion since you Limeys in the Royal Navy had more than your share of mutton du jour aboard . . . nothing like out of a can.
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Old 16-03-2015, 11:39   #70
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

Good grief, do you really think Americans are any worse than the average individual in any other country? This could be applied to many countries........
I'll say it again; in my experience most Americans have been decent and friendly. I did not mention globally politically aware. I'll also repeat that I have found a friendly attitude prevalent globally. Despite dire warnings from some fine experienced (arm-chair) sailors we stopped at a Saudi Red Sea port. We had been advised by the experts that we would undoubtably be arrested, my wife sent to a harem, my kids to a child labour camp and myself beheaded - all because we did not have a visa. The truth was that we received a very friendly and courteous reception. We were assisted with refuelling and provisioning. We were helped in getting some required spare parts and granted a stay long enough to rest fully and to sort ourselves out. I'm not sure this would apply in North Korea but we have rarely found issues with any nation's general population. To get back on thread; I still am of the opinion that the Royal Navy are fantastic.
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Old 16-03-2015, 11:46   #71
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

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Good grief, do you really think Americans are any worse than the average individual in any other country? This could be applied to many countries........
I dont anyone specifically said they were, more that their system has become more harsh as a result of 9.11 and other things

Individually , they are like most other peoples. What I do find is that people in smaller ( 1st world ) countries are usually more aware of what goes on outside of their country.

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Old 16-03-2015, 11:52   #72
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

Many thanks.......we should/must get back on thread.
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Old 16-03-2015, 12:14   #73
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

"Good grief, do you really think Americans are any worse than the average individual in any other country? This could be applied to many countries........"
Bulawayo

Yes . . . with the exception of Third World Countries, I think so. We have lost so much in the last 60 years in regards to culture, education, and work ethic that it may be irretrievable in the future. It is shameful that the US ranks by most polls-- 14th in the world in overall, testable education while we spend more than any country in the world. This is said from someone who considers himself a patriotic American but has the capacity to see that we are in a decline. Facebook, Twitter, Rap Music(?),addiction to television/video games, decline of the family unit, decline of education scores, destruction of neighborhoods due to gangs, drugs and violence and the loss of our national identity due to multiculturalism. So, most Americans you'll meet are friendly . . . but most cruisers do not represent the average American. Good luck, good sailing. Rognvald
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Old 16-03-2015, 12:22   #74
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
"Good grief, do you really think Americans are any worse than the average individual in any other country? This could be applied to many countries........"
Bulawayo

Yes . . . with the exception of Third World Countries, I think so. We have lost so much in the last 60 years in regards to culture, education, and work ethic that it may be irretrievable in the future. It is shameful that the US ranks by most polls-- 14th in the world in overall, testable education while we spend more than any country in the world. This is said from someone who considers himself a patriotic American but has the capacity to see that we are in a decline. Facebook, Twitter, Rap Music(?),addiction to television/video games, decline of the family unit, decline of education scores, destruction of neighborhoods due to gangs, drugs and violence and the loss of our national identity due to multiculturalism. So, most Americans you'll meet are friendly . . . but most cruisers do not represent the average American. Good luck, good sailing. Rognvald
Id like to introduce you to the Chavs of Great Britain, They seem to cross social class. Just stand in any English high street and they will soon be spotted.

Dictionary definition: CHAV.

Picture this a young lad about 12 years of age and 4 ½ feet high baseball cap at ninety degrees in a imitation addidas tracksuit, with trouser legs tucked into his socks (of course, is definitely the height of fashion). This lad is strutting around, Cigarette in one hand jewellery all over, outside McDonalds acting as if he is 8 foot tall and built like a rugby player, when some poor unsuspecting adult (about 17/18) walks round the corner wanting to go to mcdonalds for his dinner glances at the young lad, the young lad jumps up in complete disgust and says “Whats your problem? Wanna make sommin of it? Bling Bling” when the adult starts to walk towards the young lad, the young lad pisses himself and runs off to either his pregnant 14-year-old girlfriend or his brother in the army crying his eyes out.

My mate has become a chav what can i do?

answer: shoot him before it is too late
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Old 16-03-2015, 12:45   #75
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Re: Hats Off to the Royal Navy

Quote:
Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
"Good grief, do you really think Americans are any worse than the average individual in any other country? This could be applied to many countries........"
Bulawayo

Yes . . . with the exception of Third World Countries, I think so. We have lost so much in the last 60 years in regards to culture, education, and work ethic that it may be irretrievable in the future. It is shameful that the US ranks by most polls-- 14th in the world in overall, testable education while we spend more than any country in the world. This is said from someone who considers himself a patriotic American but has the capacity to see that we are in a decline. Facebook, Twitter, Rap Music(?),addiction to television/video games, decline of the family unit, decline of education scores, destruction of neighborhoods due to gangs, drugs and violence and the loss of our national identity due to multiculturalism. So, most Americans you'll meet are friendly . . . but most cruisers do not represent the average American. Good luck, good sailing. Rognvald
I understand your point - I base my experiences on what I find ashore; whilst exploring. In the US we bought an RV and toured reasonably extensively. It was an experience that we intend to undertake again. The cruising fraternity that we meet could really not be classified as representative for any nationality. Cruisers are a special, seperate breed, in a different category entirely. I think this is what leads to so many interesting cockpit discussions. We also believe that most cruisers are intelligent enough to avoid confrontation whilst not compromising their ideals. Possibly, this is what draws the long term cruisers to continue......
Is that a new thread? What makes a cruiser continue to sail after say two to five years?
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