Has Cruising Become Too Artificial, Too Expensive, Too Regulated ?

[bella]

Originally Posted by zeehag

there may be no where in west coast or east coast to anchor, but the seas are still free outside the us governmental limits.......sailing itself is still free.....

NO idea about the West Coast US, never been there but East coast.. plenty of places to anchor.
Despite the dire warnings West coast fla has plenty of free spots to drop the hook... In fact I will be doing exactly that this weekend..

NO Seas are not free outside the US.. other governments regulate thier space as much as we do and in some cases more. Further international agreements allow US boats to be interdicted at sea by the USCG and Navy.

[boasun]

Originally Posted by Efraim

I hear cruising off Somalia is pretty good...no government, no rules, every man is his own boss. Sounds a little like paradise.

As long as you are well armed for battle...

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by atoll

off the top of my head can think of a few;
icc certification
vat registration,and enforcement of tax.
cumpolsary use of mooring bouys.

piracy in previously safe areas.

cruising permits

I don't know what icc certification is so it is one that is not affecting me. If it is new and affects you as a cruiser then I stand corrected.

I remember getting cruising permits in the 80's. For every country that might be getting harder to checkin there are others that are trying to make it easier with online or over the phone checkin, etc.

Where has anyone made you use a mooring bouy except for check in procedures/quarantine?

Piracy is not a regulation and it could be argued that lack of "regulation/enforcement" actually contributes to it.

Taxes have been here forever. VAT is just another way of paying it. In the US we have been paying property taxes on our boats for ages.

It is hard to see how any of the above are changing the way cruisers are enjoying cruising which to me was the gist of the OP's post. We love to blame "regulation" like our parents blamed rock and roll or miniskirts as being the downfall of civilization but I am having a hard time remembering a time when everything was free and easy and you didn't pay taxes and went country to country without paperwork and could put our sewerage just anywhere we wanted to. Maybe I am getting Alzheimer's.

Jim

[atoll]

Originally Posted by boasun

As long as you are well armed for battle...

worst thing about arriving back in europe was having to leave all my firearms in gibralter to be destroyed if i didn't collect them in 6months..............

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by atoll

worst thing about arriving back in europe was having to leave all my firearms in gibralter to be destroyed if i didn't collect them in 6months..............

I don't think they issue licences for 'Bofor's' do they.....

[Sea Yawl Later]

Somalia huh?

Riiiiight... cute but off subject.

Last year in Georgetown Exuma you could anchor, pull your boat up on the beach, do pretty much anything you wanted as long as you didn't bother your neighbor.. and then it was between you and him.

This year I stopped in GT probably 8 times on my wanderings, Regulation has come to that particular harbor 10 fold.... heck I thought I was in Marathon / Boot Key with "Little Dick" (the harbormaster) I got yelled at so much. "Elvis" the water taxi driver is now the newly elected "Harbor Master" he controls the new moorings and anything else he wants to control in Elisabeth Harbor. Once I got "Branded" as a trouble maker I couldn't do anything right.... according to the new harbor Nazi.

Now to be fair I am a bit unconventional, I own a Seawind 1000 cat that is beachable. I previously enjoyed pulling up on the beach at the Chat-N-Chill because we have a beach access ladder under the bow and it's nice to go get a burger or watever like all the powerboaters but for some reason... now, Elvis flips his wig when I do that. I've been harassed to the point of fuming several times.

I have a nice movie projector and 1000 watt speaker on board to show movies on the sail for the cruiser kids at night. I asked permission and sometimes got it in GT to do just that. Other times I got the Bahamian what for...... even after initially getting permission...

Previously the cruisers regulated themselves and it worked out just fine.... unfortunately that's not the case anymore. When they ran everybody out of the very best spot to anchor by planting money balls... oops I meant mooring balls... regulations came in with the revenue.

Sadly, GT Exumas will never be the same.

Somalia..... that's what everyone was talking about I'm sure.... lol.

SYL

[twoblocktom]

Originally Posted by Piney

My only hope is that as the governments fall into financial decay, there will be less and less money available to enforce the billions of regulations that have been forced upon us.

Or that 2012 will see the return of the mothership ???

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by Efraim

I hear cruising off Somalia is pretty good...no government, no rules, every man is his own boss. Sounds a little like paradise.

you sound a lot like cartman from southpark right now... minus the profanity and anti-semitic remarks.

which is a compliment. love me some southpark.

[virginia boy]

Originally Posted by Piney

My only hope is that as the governments fall into financial decay, there will be less and less money available to enforce the billions of regulations that have been forced upon us.

WOW! Nothing like a little schadenfreude to perk up ones flagging spirits aye?

[James Baines]

As a friend of mine in Texas used to say:

"Thank God we don't get all the government we pay for".

Looking at it that way, I guess the restrictions could be a whole lot worse...James

[nautical62]

On my last 3-month cruise, I never once paid for a mooring or a slip. I walked deserted beaches and sometimes had an entire island to myself. For good or bad, the beaches were natural meaning they had sea weed and garbage. There was nothing artificial about them.

To some degree it all depends on where you choose to go cruising and in what style you choose to do it in.

On the other hand, a Bahamas cruising permit has gone from $20 to $150 over the 10 years I've been cruising there. After the hurricanes few years ago insurance premiums jumped notably and I have been unable to find some of the affordable storage options I could years ago. I think in some respects the cost of owning a boat have gone up more than inflation.

[dana-tenacity]

Compulsory insurance in places.

[zeehag]

most compulsory insurance is liability and is relatively inexpensive.
do not try to anchor in ensenada, san diego or most west coast harbors without express permission from harbormaster/police.
i purposefully omitted mention of west coast of fla as i already KNOW many free places to dock/anchor exist, having been there done that for a year.
there are many miles of ocean not regulated by a governing body as those areas are wide open and not close to land--more than 100 miles out, actually. is pleasant out there.
smooth sailing.
i have found that it isnt CRUISING that has become superficial and artificial--is some cruisers. not everyone is that. many are still real good folks.
i meet with some of those daily for noon meal here in mazatlan, and i met some in other areas i have cruised. there is still hope.

[djmarchand]

I spent most of last year cruising singlehanded on my sailing cat from Florida to Maine. Here is my take on "regulations".

1. The Boat- The only government regulations are the USCG required safety equipment. The boat building industry polices its own design and construction with voluntary ABYC standards, which most builders comply with. Your insurance company may force you to upgrade to some current ABYC standards for older boats. Not particularly onerous and most are sensible.

2. Licenses- Absolutely none that I am aware of in the US for US citizens.

3. Anchoring- I had more trouble in New England than in Florida, mostly with mooring field operators that wanted to prohibit anchoring nearby. Even Marathon, Fl was tolerable, even pleasant. There was room to anchor or you could take a reasonably priced mooring ball. Say what you want about the Marathon harbormaster and the new mooring and pumpout rules- it is a lot nicer place as a result.

Operational-

No, you can't pump out overboard anywhere within three miles. But that is probably a good thing. Most cruisers follow the law in protected waters and handle their wastes sensibly when in open waters ;-).

I was never stopped and boarded, even in NYC. But I was probably lucky. Homeland Security didn't bother me, except for a half dozen armed joy riders blasting by burning up taxpayer money somewhere on the Ga ICW. The Navy stopped me in NC to wait for a Marine excercise but such is the price of freedom.

The USCG no longer tows you in for free so you have to pay a commercial tower. But who should expect that- do the local police tow your broken down car for free?

All in all with the exception of a few places that have installed mooring fields (and most are a positive rather than negative development) I don't see much difference over a 20 year period.

David

[off-the-grid]

David,

Some states do require boating licenses, but I think only for residents, and/or boats registered in that state. I needed one before I escaped NJ. Otherwise I've had the same experience. FL has either changed a lot, or it's all a bunch of hyped up BS from other boaters, trying to keep us out, since it's already crowded. Never boarded once, except a random head check on my delivery trip 2+ years ago. Never kicked out of anyplace. My one run in with marine patrol, in which I probably was deserving of a ticket, they were very pleasant, and just told me don't let that happen again. And that was in Miami, which used to be known as a very unfriendly spot for liveaboards and cruisers.

I've anchored up and down the entire East coast, never paid for a ball, haven't paid for a slip in over a year, and never paid for shore access, other than restaurant docks that I went to by choice. Biggest problem I've had is the growing lack of unsecured Wi-fi, and HUGE wakes from the weekend warriors.