Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-03-2015, 16:00   #106
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post

The working chumps (like myself) no longer have the leisure time- you need to be the five percent who as Island Time put it- made the right choice. Well- there you have it, you guys did a better job of arguing my point then your own. 30 years ago- the middle class- or the middle 50% of income earners could expect a reasonable amount of leisure time from their careers. Now only the privileged few can have the expectation of work life balance in North America.
Thanks for weighing in with a "younger" perspective although it appears some of us old farts aren't listening - what's new?

One of the things we have done as pointed out n a few posts is "demanded" more stuff. Bigger houses, better cars, A/V rooms etc. This demanded two wages and is why so many people are at risk in case of a spouse long term illness or an economic downturn. We can't support the monthly without 2 wages.

My parents raised 7 kids in a 1500 sq foot house. We had an old station wagon and an older pickup truck. Isn't a new minvan like $50k now. My Dad's house cost $19k! We had one black and white tv and we had to walk acroos the room to change to one of the other 3 channels available. No cell phones, no video games, no PCs, iPads etc.

Not that these are bad - it's that we didn't even have these things to spend money on!

Look at it this way - Convert everything you have to a life cycle cost - i.e. cost per day until you have to replace it. We have a large monthly expense just replacing a lot of stuff we can do without.

Yes - employers may "demand" overtime and that sucks. In my company new employees can only reach a level of 4 weeks annual leave. I am grandfathered at 6 weeks. However I never take it and as a result I lose it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
North Americans work way too much, and get way too little time off compared to the rest of the Western world. Why are we so stupid:
Weird that the table shows zero holidays and zero leave for Americans. Makes me suspicious.
__________________

__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 16:07   #107
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,032
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Cars are no longer designed to be worked on. In fact, the makers seem to do everything in their power to discourage owners from doing even the most basic of maintenance. Oil changes, forget it. In most cases it's hard to even see the engine, let alone get at it. What with all the onboard diagnostics and computer driven maintenance schedules it's hard for owners to do anything other than put fuel in their cars. I do all my own maintenance on my boat and my motorcycle, but my newish car ... forget it.



The same goes for all the electronic doodads we have onboard. Chart plotters, auto helms, various instruments ... they are all difficult to repair if their computer components go.

For cars at least that is simply not true, I do all my own maintenance and always have, modern cars are if anything way easier to diagnose and repair now than they were in the 70's.
The software diagnostics available now is just phenomenal


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 16:36   #108
Registered User
 
brownoarsman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Round Bay, Severn River
Boat: Formerly Pearson 28-1, now just a sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,320
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

The new car thing is really model dependent I think. My insight run was from 2000-2007, is a complicated hybrid, and is a delight to work on. By contrast, my Mercedes SLK I would never touch. Weird things were always breaking on it that were impossible to diagnose. For instance a spent sensor in my wheel disabled my convertible top. With enough passionate owners, I can usually find whatever I need to know on online forums though. There have been a few threads on the new generation yanmars being difficult for the layman. So, I guess include that in your purchase process.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
brownoarsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 18:19   #109
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
For cars at least that is simply not true, I do all my own maintenance and always have, modern cars are if anything way easier to diagnose and repair now than they were in the 70's.
The software diagnostics available now is just phenomenal


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
The big difference are computers and that sub assemblies are replaceable. I bought my son a used car. We took it to Midas for a "health" check. They quoted $1600 in repairs including an $800 brake job my son and I did for about $200 including new front rotors - apparently you don't take them for refacing any more ($25 each!)

The outer CV boot on the left half shaft was split. The quote included a new/rebuilt shaft. Crazy, I though. I bought a boot for $30. After dorking around for 2 hours (the inner CV joint needs to be disassm) I went to AutoZone and asked how much a half shaft was $78 with a $20 core charge ($58 net) For 28 bucks I got the whole shaft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownoarsman View Post
The new car thing is really model dependent I think. My insight run was from 2000-2007, is a complicated hybrid, and is a delight to work on. By contrast, my Mercedes SLK I would never touch. Weird things were always breaking on it that were impossible to diagnose. For instance a spent sensor in my wheel disabled my convertible top. With enough passionate owners, I can usually find whatever I need to know on online forums though. There have been a few threads on the new generation yanmars being difficult for the layman. So, I guess include that in your purchase process.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
The cruise control on said car is inop. Google that. The cruise control routes through the brake light system. The repeated opening and closing of the hatch fails the loom, the third light fails the cruise control stops. (The internet is awesome)

The other thing is getting the code reader. These are cheap now. Plug it in and the car tells you what is wrong and what to replace. It's different. We want to clean and gap the points. Today you replace an I/C board.

Ok - Serious sailing forum thread drift - LOL...
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 18:50   #110
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 4,023
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
For cars at least that is simply not true, I do all my own maintenance and always have, modern cars are if anything way easier to diagnose and repair now than they were in the 70's.
The software diagnostics available now is just phenomenal
Well, you are the first person I've ever heard this from. When I look at a new car engine it's completely covered to begin with. There's a few dipsticks, clearly labelled, but that's about it. Then it's controlled electronically with all sorts of sensors and devices, most of which are inaccessible to the backyard mechanic. I suppose if you have access to the diagnostic interface it could be easier. It sure doesn't seem that way to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Weird that the table shows zero holidays and zero leave for Americans. Makes me suspicious.
Yes ... As I understand the analysis it is based on legally mandated holidays. The USA has none...? Maybe it's more State-based? Regardless, the overall message is clear; Americans and Canadians get far fewer paid days off than our European friends.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 18:54   #111
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Yes ... As I understand the analysis it is based on legally mandated holidays. The USA has none...? Maybe it's more State-based? Regardless, the overall message is clear; Americans and Canadians get far fewer paid days off than our European friends.
Ahhh.. Legally mandated - got it...

America - Land of the free. Ain't no gummint gonna tell me what holidays I gotta take! Wait, what?
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 19:10   #112
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,032
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

Thread drift I know, but auto wise check this device out, it's incredible what it can tell you
http://www.autotap.com There are many others I'm sure, I've had this for years though.
Then if you own a GM LS engine, there is LS edit, a program where you can reprogram all kinds of things, even transmission shift points, pressures, fuel and advance curves, you name it.
As far as what I maintain, a 2010 Prius, which is pretty sophisticated and Toyota doesn't share their code like GM and Ford, so you can't read as much off their Bus
A 2005 CTS-V, GM's Hot rod which is not un-complex and a 2001 Duramax Diesel, let me tell you changing fuel injectors in that thing was a real bear, and not inexpensive, $3,500 in just parts for eight injectors.

One of the biggest help with auto maintenance as already mentioned is the "net", there are owner forums for just about any vehicle and many of them are pretty knowledgeable, and as na example, I can assure you Toyota isn't stupid, there are factory guys that post there on Prius chat and keep rumors in check etc.

To quote John Muir "Nobody makes enough money to pay someone else to work on their Volkswagen" Still true today as it was then

Sorry, back to your scheduled forum


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 19:17   #113
Registered User
 
FamilyVan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,779
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Thanks for weighing in with a "younger" perspective although it appears some of us old farts aren't listening - what's new?

One of the things we have done as pointed out n a few posts is "demanded" more stuff. Bigger houses, better cars, A/V rooms etc. This demanded two wages and is why so many people are at risk in case of a spouse long term illness or an economic downturn. We can't support the monthly without 2 wages.

My parents raised 7 kids in a 1500 sq foot house. We had an old station wagon and an older pickup truck. Isn't a new minvan like $50k now. My Dad's house cost $19k! We had one black and white tv and we had to walk acroos the room to change to one of the other 3 channels available. No cell phones, no video games, no PCs, iPads etc.

Not that these are bad - it's that we didn't even have these things to spend money on!

Look at it this way - Convert everything you have to a life cycle cost - i.e. cost per day until you have to replace it. We have a large monthly expense just replacing a lot of stuff we can do without.
Hmm. I think what I'm trying to say is that money isn't really the issue- at least not in my circle of friends. Time is the issue. My employer pays 4% in lieu of vacation time.

Paying for the boat isn't really an issue. I have lots of cool toys- sailboat, Harley nice SUV, no debt no mortgage. The hitch is, many employers just won't give you time off. They aren't mandated to so they don't. It may be cheaper for them to pay $30k or $40k a year in overtime than it is to pay wsib, benefits, never mind the cost of training and recruiting technically skilled employees. So the work culture is to have as few people doing as much work as they can.

Then there is the labour market itself. Often times there just isn't the labour available in the Market right now to fill skilled roles. B.A.s are a dime a dozen, but have you tried to get an elevator fixed lately? If you have you know how hard it is to find elevator technicians. Paid to have a plumber fix your sink lately? Your coughing up at least $100/hr, which sucks for you, but it also sucks for the plumber because he's got a $90 000 centre console sport fisher sitting at the dock- he'd rather be hooking salmon- if he could just have gotten the week end off...



Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
FamilyVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 19:27   #114
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post

Paying for the boat isn't really an issue. I have lots of cool toys- sailboat, Harley nice SUV, no debt no mortgage. The hitch is, many employers just won't give you time off. They aren't mandated to so they don't. It may be cheaper for them to pay $30k or $40k a year in overtime than it is to pay wsib, benefits, never mind the cost of training and recruiting technically skilled employees. So the work culture is to have as few people doing as much work as they can.
I am sure you don't want advice but here it comes anyway - LOL...

Years ago a boss said, "Every payday you get a check. There is a number in the bottom right corner. At that point you decide if it's worth another go."

The point is your job is a trade off to you. You have toys and no debt. That has value to you. If you value time off more then I would start looking for a job that gives you less money and more time off.

The key is finding that job before you quit the current one in disgust or frustration. Stay in a position of power. It may take a year to find that next job. In the meantime you are still paying the bills.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 19:39   #115
Registered User
 
FamilyVan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,779
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

Oh, I've got a solution that kind of works for me. I'm trying to explain what the problem is in a general sense.

What I've been doing is take a job, work for a few years, then quit so I can take time off to do what I want. My last trip was to the Himalayas in 2013. Unfortunately- that seems to be the only viable way of getting quality time off- at least in my business. Then I find a new job when I start to get low on cash again. I'm in the saving phase right now.

So- no, I'm not looking for advice, unless you have a job for me that has a decent leave schedule- if you do, let's talk.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
FamilyVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 19:46   #116
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilyVan View Post
Oh, I've got a solution that kind of works for me. I'm trying to explain what the problem is in a general sense.

What I've been doing is take a job, work for a few years, then quit so I can take time off to do what I want. My last trip was to the Himalayas in 2013. Unfortunately- that seems to be the only viable way of getting quality time off- at least in my business. Then I find a new job when I start to get low on cash again. I'm in the saving phase right now.

So- no, I'm not looking for advice, unless you have a job for me that has a decent leave schedule- if you do, let's talk.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
So you do get time off. You just get it by quitting your job. It's awesome to have those portable skills. Not being sarcastic. Really.

There are a lot of folks that would trade places with you in a nano-second.

So I'll say it again. I am old school grandfathered in to 6 weeks off a year. I can "never" take it all and when I do it is 5 days at a time. You are 100% right. No one tolerates their workforce being gone for that long. (So if you find that employer please let me know - LOL)

Taking 2 weeks off in a row is tough for me. Taking 4 weeks straight or 6 (Ha) is an impossibility even though I have a "right" to do so.
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 20:01   #117
Registered User
 
FamilyVan's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,779
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

Yes- I do get time off, in a funny kind of way- I agree, I believe my approach would be tricky for some. I think that's why sailing, fishing, cottages are not as popular with younger people now as they were in the 80's, that quit your job every few years when you want to take a vacation really isn't a practical solution for most.

Sent from my SGH-I547C using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________
FamilyVan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 20:13   #118
Registered User
 
brownoarsman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Round Bay, Severn River
Boat: Formerly Pearson 28-1, now just a sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,320
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

My brother did that for a while when he was younger. He'd work construction during the day and bartend at night so pretty busy weeks, but then leave for six months to backpack in some part of the world, then do it all again.
I've basically been doing the same thing but in white collar jobs. So far two massive vacations, and then this one. My first job out of college i negotiated a sabbatical period at my consulting firm. Never used it but it was there. At Bain and BCG you now have the option to take two months off every two/three years I think it is, and still have your job when you get back. So some employers are catching up to what millennials and people in general want.
I do wish there was more of an understanding in the U.S. about doing things like this though. My friend in Australia has the regular long leave there, but can also take 12 weeks off unpaid each year, which he does every year, with no repercussions. Of course, they have a high currency value and a very tight labor market, which are two things North America has been missing until recently.


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
brownoarsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2015, 20:15   #119
Registered User
 
brownoarsman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Round Bay, Severn River
Boat: Formerly Pearson 28-1, now just a sailing dinghy
Posts: 1,320
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

And not to sidetrack, but I sold that Mercedes when the scheduled service was going to be something like $6,000 which I thought a bit ridiculous. My ex-gf's VW suffered from the same circuit issues. A failed brake light left her golf totally inoperable and she needed a 60-mile tow to the dealership (under warranty). But seriously, KISS!


Sent from my iPhone using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
brownoarsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2015, 07:01   #120
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,941
Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

Here in Toronto, one of the more expensive yacht clubs (IYC) folded because they had trouble attracting new members. Their clubhouse burning down a few years ago didn't exactly help.

But at our club - a younger self-help type club, our waiting list as jumped from 6 months to 4 years in just two years.

So, costs could in part explain the above.
__________________

__________________
Lake-Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
head, sail, sailing

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good Morning, Good Evening and Good Night bullitt774 Meets & Greets 10 30-08-2010 15:35
Monster tri headed for San Diego Roy M Multihull Sailboats 56 01-10-2008 11:35
Headed Down to Live in the US Virgin Islands dougdee Liveaboard's Forum 6 25-04-2008 17:57
Anyone headed to La Paz from San Diego soon? Roy M Cruising News & Events 1 12-04-2008 10:59
Headed back there now Greg B Great Lakes 0 28-04-2005 18:35



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.