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Old 01-03-2015, 08:34   #46
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

To those of you postulating the decline of sailing due to the younger generation of lazy, video game playing youth, please have a look at the book "Saving Sailing" by Nick Hayes. It is widely circulated among those of us involved with junior sailing programs. It gives more thought to finding solutions than placing blame. One of those solutions is the fostering of better mentorships to help bridge the generation gap.

If you tell kids they are lazy and assume they have no interest in something, guess what - they won't.
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Old 01-03-2015, 09:02   #47
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

The reason young people are not sailing is not because they are lazy. The reason they are not sailing is because they do not think it is cool.

Same for flying.

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Old 01-03-2015, 09:34   #48
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

I could give a flyin fart if every "plastic fantastic, look at me, wannbe sailor" ran off to be a Yachtie powerboat owner. In fact I wish they would.
I find (in anchorages anyway) that the older crowd who was brought up on the water and respect adventure and life around them are the most inviting and friendly I've met. I know I'm generalizing but when I meet Mr. and Mrs. Look at me, with their Bravado 47.32, I can barely get an acknowledgment when I say hello.
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Old 01-03-2015, 16:35   #49
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

This whole "kids today..." is a lament all senior generations dump on the up-and-comers. I don't buy it. The same was said about Baby Boomers and there "TV-habits", then when my generation (Gen-X) came along it was the Internet, and now it's gaming and social media for those Millennials. I'm sure they were saying the same thing about the Greatest Generation with their "listing to that Radio thing."

There are real differences with current economic and social realities. The fact is that most North Americans (and Americans most acutely) have seen their incomes stagnate and fall, and their leisure time shrink. Middle class incomes have been dropping (relative to inflation, and in some cases in absolute terms) for the past 35 years, maybe longer. Americans in particular are working way more now compared to a couple of generations ago. The promise of a 4-day work week and expanded leisure time is a bitter joke for most people.

But these trends are no where near as pronounced in many European countries. Even my own Canada looks better for most people. So I really do wonder if the apparent decline in cruising is a global phenomena, or perhaps more American-centric.
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Old 01-03-2015, 16:55   #50
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

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It was Deep Space Nine, Benjamin Sisko, and I believe yes, "lightships" were either Asimov, Heinlein or another from the great Era of Science Fiction. I remember reading about a lightship race where there were several participants in an old book


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you are so correct. I knew somewhere out there in CF there would be a nerdier nerd than me. It was Benjamin Sisko.

I have a client now who's young child she's called 'Teal'c'. Without the need to google it, can you have a guess of what she's a fan of?
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Old 01-03-2015, 17:04   #51
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

If it's in decline, why is it getting harder to find a mooring and it's nearly impossible to be alone in an anchorage. Stats may say one thing but looking around I call BS.

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Old 01-03-2015, 17:07   #52
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
This whole "kids today..." is a lament all senior generations dump on the up-and-comers. I don't buy it. The same was said about Baby Boomers and there "TV-habits", then when my generation (Gen-X) came along it was the Internet, and now it's gaming and social media for those Millennials. I'm sure they were saying the same thing about the Greatest Generation with their "listing to that Radio thing."



There are real differences with current economic and social realities. The fact is that most North Americans (and Americans most acutely) have seen their incomes stagnate and fall, and their leisure time shrink. Middle class incomes have been dropping (relative to inflation, and in some cases in absolute terms) for the past 35 years, maybe longer. Americans in particular are working way more now compared to a couple of generations ago. The promise of a 4-day work week and expanded leisure time is a bitter joke for most people.



But these trends are no where near as pronounced in many European countries. Even my own Canada looks better for most people. So I really do wonder if the apparent decline in cruising is a global phenomena, or perhaps more American-centric.

Given the interest I see locally in dinghy sailing courses, I see no reason to feel sailing is disappearing

Dave


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Old 01-03-2015, 17:11   #53
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

I wasn't aware that sailing was diminishing in the US. But that is not a trend that's occurring throughout Australia. The Fremantle Yacht Club (for you Yanks that's in WA where you lost the American's cup ) did a study and highlighted that across Australia boat ownership has double in the past census and is believed to continue to increase until 2025. My own little State of Tasmania remains the highest boat ownership of anywhere in Australia (per population). Sadly Tasmania has the highest percentage of boats that never leave their mooring too.

I think it's probably true that 'club' sailing has diminished, but that's possibly true of the trend in most clubs for most sports. The cultural trend away from 'outdoors' sports may have something to do with that, but I think that is likely to change as there seems to be a push on for more outdoors activities.

Owning a sail boat has never been cheaper in Australia. There are plenty of sea going well constructed and proven yachts available for $30 to $40k. From my observations in Tasmania there are plenty of rotting/sinking yachts available that are not up for sale too. Very sad.

And buying a 'cheap' vessel and making it a priority to upgrade it's safety features was my number one priority and still is. Personally I see a good chart plotter as one of those 'must have' features. Though mine already had a suitable one. My highest priority was to upgrade the epirb to one with a GPS and also to add a PLB.

Motor boats are also on the increase, but these tend to be more likely to be owed by people with good cash flows, given what they cost to run.

In Australia 'flying light aircraft' is in a state of almost decimation. It's simply too expensive to get a license and then to keep your license. Purchasing and keeping a light aircraft is really only for the well off. The exception is 'recreational' aircraft which is the saviour to many clubs around Australia. With the rules changing, getting a license, keeping it and flying is much more within the reach of common folk.

Looking at my local sailing club I'm not sure if they are lacking members or not. On sail days there seem to be an abundance of kids in little sail boats racing.
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Old 01-03-2015, 17:28   #54
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

I'm 44 and work with a lot of Millennials (30-somethings). In my business they tend to be pretty aggressive and not lazy. In fact, they work as hard as they play. However, since the internet and cell phones has made work a 24/7 endeavor, they rarely have whole weekends to themselves.

During my time in the office, the subject of where my wife and I live invariably arises. When I tell them I live and work on the boat while sailing up and down the east coast they - for the most part - don't even know that there are people that live on their boats full time. I get the usual questions. Then I say "you can do it too".

And it happens...

"No - I'm too important to the business. If I left it would fall apart." or something like that. I chuckle inside and don't have the heart to tell them the truth.

The reality is that sailing away and living on a boat is just too foreign and too risky for them - cruising is being on a big cruise ship and going from country to country over five days. I'm not saying this is true for all 20 and 30 somethings but the helicopter parenting has certainly had a negative impact on a couple generations.
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Old 01-03-2015, 23:38   #55
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

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...across Australia boat ownership has double in the past census and is believed to continue to increase until 2025.
Err... was that the same census where a huge number of Australians gave their religion as "Jedi"?

Just calibrating my systems here...
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Old 02-03-2015, 02:00   #56
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

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Err... was that the same census where a huge number of Australians gave their religion as "Jedi"?

Just calibrating my systems here...
Have you got something against Jedi's?

Think carefully, Jedi's already know your answer
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Old 02-03-2015, 03:03   #57
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

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Have you got something against Jedi's?

Think carefully, Jedi's already know your answer
Difficult to sail backwards it is.
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Old 02-03-2015, 03:26   #58
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

I think the primary issue perhaps, is that current 25-45s are simple;y under too much financial pressure to engage in what is a relatively expensive and time consuming sport.

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Old 02-03-2015, 05:47   #59
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

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I'm 44 and work with a lot of Millennials (30-somethings). In my business they tend to be pretty aggressive and not lazy. In fact, they work as hard as they play. However, since the internet and cell phones has made work a 24/7 endeavor, they rarely have whole weekends to themselves.
This is a very accurate statement for the most part. Many would be surprised to find out where they "rate" with regard to their generational claim. Strauss and Howe identify the following birth years and the names give to them -

Boomers - 1943-1960
Generation X - 1961-1981
Millenials - 1982-2004
Homeland - 2005 - present

Someone who is 53 years old is actually considered a Gen X'er and a 33 year old is a Millennial.

Cost has a lot to do with the business. To reference AH64's post, I fly for a living because I can't afford to fly for fun. A lot of hobbies are very expensive. There are days now when I have to justify the marina expense to myself as time making memories with my family.

FWIW, My wife and I are in our late 30's which puts us in the Gen X bunch.
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Old 02-03-2015, 05:57   #60
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Re: Good Dissection of Where Sailing is Headed

It's a cost thing, I'm an addict so cost doesn't matter to me. I have two boats......I have a problem.
But it's insanity how much even small sailboats cost now. A basic Hobie 16 without a trailer is 10k. A new sunfish, last time I looked was near 5k. Get into the racing scene on a small spinnaker beach cat with a trailer and once to twice a month regatta fees, travel, etc, and you're looking at a lower middle class income spent on the pursuit of pleasure.
There are tons of older monohulls wasting away in marinas, but be honest, what percentage of the population has the know how or desire to make functional that wich has languished in disrepair for years?


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