Gender roles in sailing and cruising

[scottydaum]

Because it is on a boat....it is governed by Maritime Law rather than the Laws we follow on Land. This means there are ideas that are very very old, and meant to cover situations from different countries.Many may seem antiquated regarding gender issues which in our country have been rather "fluid" since the early 60's or so.
Also when Cruising you travel thru areas with very different cultural rules which may be far different than what we experience here today.
When I do a Boat Delivery, I require the Title, Registration, Insurance,Documentation (if appropriate)AND a "letter of authoriZation" to act as Master on behalf of the Owner" Even or should I say ESPECIALLY if the Owner is onboard. This makes it clear who is in Charge, but more importantly WHO IS RESPONSIBLE. For insurance purposes is is all about "responsibility". I also have them include in the authoriZation the authority to use the Boats Credit Cards, and make decisions for repairs up to a certain dollar amount.
So for me NONE of those things really have anything to do with Gender Bias, but simple Legal Issues.
A couple of years ago I acted as Mate on a Delivery with the Female Owner. She was skilled and capable but the boat was new to her as was the route and she just wanted a hand who knew there route and help shake out a new boat. To my surprise many times when we were docking, the Dock Hands would address ME as Captain or Skipper, even when SHE, the Owner/Captain was at the Helm.
Since it was a rather large boat this was often out of earshot of the Owner/Captain, and I would correct them, and we would all move on with the tasks at hand.
For those who think that shirts, hats, or Uniforms are just for folks on some sort of huge ego trip, I would suggest this often clears up the situation for Dock Hands and other Marina Staff helping them sort out who is Crew, who are Guest, and who is actually going to pay the bill.
Even a simple U.S. Coast Guard safety inspection begins with the question of "who is in charge".

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by Shrew

I think maybe you're not using 'beta male' in the correct context here. A Beta Male wouldn't be in the business of 'saving a damsel in distress'.

Also, a POST is an individual contribution. A Thread is a collection of posts on a subject. One cannot have a 'bunch' of males contributing to a single POST. That would be a series of posts in a thread.

Also, I don't see any 'Alpha Male's posts in this thread either. I'm not at all clear at what you're getting at.

Yes, these words have meaning and their meaning is important in the context of a discussion.

You answered your own question. Beta males cannot save anyone, but only "fret" if things appear "fair" regardless of competence in roles.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Souzag818

I don’t really understand how a cruising couple can function with ‘blue’ and ‘pink’ jobs.

I agree. I actually do most of the cooking aboard. The cleaning rag doesn't understand the concept of the gender of the hand that wields it. We do 100% of the maintenance together.

I'm at the helm when we drop anchor. She is at the helm when we pick-up the anchor. We split helm time underway. I'll dock, but she frequently takes it off the dock. We plot courses and navigate together.

My biggest challenge is getting the 'dock committee' to stop giving my wife instructions, as they typically counter either our normal process or our agreed upon approach. She is good about ignoring them.

[gamayun]

I'll ask this in a different way. How many of the guys here would say their wives/girlfriends/partners are comfortable taking the boat out without you. I'm a female and I'm just calling it as I see it from the other side. If she doesn't have the skills/confidence/time behind the wheel and it's just the two of you cruising together, than I'm asking why is this?

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I'll ask this in a different way. How many of the guys here would say their wives/girlfriends/partners are comfortable taking the boat out without you. I'm a female and I'm just calling it as I see it from the other side. If she doesn't have the skills/confidence/time behind the wheel and it's just the two of you cruising together, than I'm asking why is this?

Because she wants it that way.

[atmartin]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I'll ask this in a different way. How many of the guys here would say their wives/girlfriends/partners are comfortable taking the boat out without you. I'm a female and I'm just calling it as I see it from the other side. If she doesn't have the skills/confidence/time behind the wheel and it's just the two of you cruising together, than I'm asking why is this?

Leaving from a mooring or dock is fine, but the anchor is too heavy for her to haul alone. We're low budget, so a windlass is down the priorities. It's not realistic to expect someone to haul combined anchor and chain that weighs more than them. Neither of us has daysailed our boat alone, so it's not an issue. We have friends and customers with better and faster boats to daysail on.

Offshore, we split watches evenly, so we have the same experience. When something breaks, it goes to the person with several years professional experience and bad knees: me (the guy). It may not be equitable, but it makes about as much sense for her to learn my job as it does for me to learn programming (her job).

[Matt Johnson]

Best advice we were given when starting is to have my wife be the captain on all paperwork and have her go into customs & immigration. We'd watch males going in banging heads over simple issues, chest bumping from the officials, hours spent getting every 'i' dotted and 't' crossed only to have my wife walk in and out in under 10 minutes.

Matt

[lordgeoff]

👍😂 Plus 5 characters🙄

[lordgeoff]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

You answered your own question. Beta males cannot save anyone, but only "fret" if things appear "fair" regardless of competence in roles.

Is a “Beta” Male like a “Beta” version of Microsoft Windows........?
sort of a trial version with more “Bugs” than the fnumber of bugs in the Final Version?
Blue Jobs / Pink Jobs is so much more descriptive?��

[nautical62]

When my female sailing companion sails with me on my boat, I'm in charge. When I sail with her on her boat, she's in charge. Either way, we always talk through what we would each like to do.

It's the same when I sail with other guys.

[Hudson Force]

I agree with those that say these are private and personal choices; however, it is interesting to compare these choices. Over the 45 years that we lived aboard and cruised, we developed habits in our roles that left only one arbitrary and essential choice that I'll save for the close of this post.

Many of our roles were due to our own preferences and these were often very traditional. I've always had little interest in food other than nutritional health and I've been known to have poor taste; while my wife enjoys her discriminating palate and enjoys the preparation to please herself. I excel at washing dishes and cleaning the galley. I am fascinated by mechanical challenges and maintenance projects and she sees a reward in polishing stainless.

Both of us were capable of the operation of our ketch and we sometimes took our boat out without the other. This wasn't often and at worse ended with me returning to find Nancie with bags of groceries spoiling on the dock. (prior to cell phones)

Some of our roles were simply the most practical choice. I am physically stronger and with more agility and a far greater reach. None of these attributes are needed at the helm while docking; therefore, Nancie was almost always at the helm when leaving and arriving at a dock or anchorage while I was able to handle the ground tackle, fend off pilings, handle lines and fenders.

The final and most important, though arbitrary choice, was to determine who was "captain" at that critical moment in emergency when quick action is vital. .....'the bridge is closing as we approach set with the current! .....'a potential for collision was previously unknown! ....'the smell of propane or smoke! ....crew overboard! ...alarm of any kind! The answer became obvious as we discussed this. Who ever is at the helm will be responding first and they are the captain!

[alaskaflyfish]

Originally Posted by lordgeoff

Is a “Beta” Male like a “Beta” version of Microsoft Windows........?
sort of a trial version with more “Bugs” than the fnumber of bugs in the Final Version?
Blue Jobs / Pink Jobs is so much more descriptive?��

Beta males a.k.a...Nu-male or soyboy, are males who are gender confused (since there are 30+ forms of gender identity now) and who confuse fact with emotion. Emotional awareness is the primary focus in their ideology hence their willingness to lay down and be dominated by a strong masculine female. Facts and reality are meaningless. The appearance of fairness greatly outweighs the quality of competence. Thus, a strong masculine female presence in a traditional male role is celebrated whereas a hetero-normative male in the same role is considered toxic. Male self-hate is also of tremendous importance to further their ideology. I hope that clears things up,,,cheers.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by alaskaflyfish

Because she wants it that way.

+1
In my case, she absolutely loves being on the boat while sailing, but has no interest in actually sailing the boat. None. This would take away from dolphin watching, reading, and doing what she truly loves: cooking. She would laugh at you if you suggested that we were a bit old fashioned in our division of labor

For purely practical reasons, she has gained the experience needed to be at the helm. However this was in the same category to her as learning how to use the pump in the head. Simply a practical skill needed to get to a new exotic location.

We work very well together in this way. It's perfect for us, actually.
I fully respect other arrangements, as everyone is different. Breaking away from "traditional" gender roles is a great concept, and I'm all for it.
However, there should be no shame in doing it the old way when all parties involved are happier that way.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I'll ask this in a different way. How many of the guys here would say their wives/girlfriends/partners are comfortable taking the boat out without you. I'm a female and I'm just calling it as I see it from the other side. If she doesn't have the skills/confidence/time behind the wheel and it's just the two of you cruising together, than I'm asking why is this?

And, I'm wondering if her answer and the men's would be the same!

And, if not in a committed relationship, I would think that a woman might have as many qualms letting a man take out her (replaceable only after more work, and more savings) boat, as he might if their positions were reversed. It would be a huge act of trust, and not undertaken lightly.

No, I just think the OP wanted to see what folks would say, like which portion of his question they answer, and at what level of emotion.

Sure there's sexism in many boating relationships. Sure, the people who were sailing in the 60's had more pink vs. blue relationships than now, but the pink and blue divisions are part of our lives for complex cultural reasons, and only slowly change. It is only as individuals that we make our decisions about what to do and how to do the "it" of the moment.

I personally don't "get it" when the women opt out. But it's pretty clear some do, and they don't much care for the other women who are more hands on. Here's an example: my friend Sue was in the bosun's chair at the spreader of their 40 footer, sewing on a new spreader boot, and a yacht club woman said to her, "You shouldn't be doing that. It's your husband's job." There are women who want to be treated like a princess--they're out there, and lots of the guys here on CF have had to deal with them, too. In a relationship, it's way too much hassle to try and make someone do something they don't want to do, even if it would benefit both partners (assuming only two).

Ann

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by gamayun

I'll ask this in a different way. How many of the guys here would say their wives/girlfriends/partners are comfortable taking the boat out without you. I'm a female and I'm just calling it as I see it from the other side. If she doesn't have the skills/confidence/time behind the wheel and it's just the two of you cruising together, than I'm asking why is this?

My honest answer is no, she would not be comfortable. But neither would I.

...

Funny, but my partner was just reading over my shoulder, so I quote: “No, I wouldn’t [comfortable taking the boat out without me]. But I would be fine going out with someone else. I don’t need you (she says, lovingly ).”

I’m exactly the same. Our boat is difficult to handle for either of us solo in close quarters. She’s not too much to sail, but getting on and off the dock requires two people. I’m sure both of us could do it solo, but neither of us would be comfortable doing so.

Equally inept I suppose .