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Old 18-01-2016, 22:36   #31
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Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

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Looking through the bottom of a empty shot glass does distort things, doesn't it.
There - fixed that for you
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Old 18-01-2016, 23:44   #32
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Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

Naaah, it's got nothing to do with terrorists. The problem is that we are a bunch of alternative lifestyle subversives who, if not carefully controlled, will entice people away from their miserable suburban, tax paying existences to an indolent laid back lifestyle on the water.
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Old 19-01-2016, 00:31   #33
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Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

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It has become obvious after recent terrorist attacks from Paris to Jakarta that we indeed have to be much more aware of the threat now seemingly spread from Europe to Africa to Asia to USA...... Any foreigner seems to be possible target, for sure yachtsmen and women are obviously standing out moored or anchored around the coasts, ports of the world. The argument that not much has changed for us cannot be uphekd anymore. All the same I for one will keep liveaboarding where I consider it possible but with much more watchfullness.
Well, I think yachtsmen at least in Europe - actually anywhere - will not be singled out as targets of terrorists. Why would they, when mass transportation, tourist attractions and shopping malls with many, many people are available just as easily.

I think Boatman and some others nailed the real problem for cruisers: increased red tape, scrutiny, xenophobia etc. making life more difficult, not more dangerous. We plan to start moving the boat south towards France/Spain next year. I don't worry about terrorists and think sailing, or driving is more risky as is. But I do worry a bit about my freedom of movement if the current vibe in Europe continues.
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Old 19-01-2016, 12:49   #34
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Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

Imagine cruising South African coast. One is not allowed to anchor outside dedicated areas which are or small craft port or marinas. Ok coast doesn't have much anchoring opps but all the same when you enter the dedicated anchor or mooring areas the maritime police sets upon you, searches you, questions you as a potential terrorist. If you choose to tie up to the pier or wall in port, where you don't pay expect authorities to harrass you until you leave to pay to stay area. The grilling, abuse has now gotten so bad, certainly if you are considered a free spirit who might have non-conformist ideas. Added to that if you have an African wife, mind you we are in Africa now, the all white maritime police harrasses you even more. They got fines for everything. You forgot to pay port tax which gives you sticker to stick to my cockpit window, you didn't radio with correct procedure, you arrived after their office closed, you didn't do customs, maritime police, port authority, SAMSA in time ir in the right order. Welcome to South Africa in the time of terrorist paranoia. I actually had 4 R5's pointed at me one tome I visited Richard's Bay, reason Inlooked and behaved suspect, as I first tied upntonwall at Zululand Club where the cost to stay in marina was above my budget at the time, again getting stared at with my African partner! SonInwentbto tie up at wall of port international arrivals with mentioned reception as a result. Ok an R5 in my face I can take but that one of the officers, a seargent, was so drunk his speech was affected, no that scared the hell out of me. Don't go to Royal Cape Club marina in Cape Town unless you got bank account with plenty, you are non-liveaboard and don't plan to overnight on your yacht inside the marina. That is suspect behavior!
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Old 19-01-2016, 12:52   #35
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Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

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I don't worry about terrorists and think sailing, or driving is more risky as is. But I do worry a bit about my freedom of movement if the current vibe in Europe continues.
Don't worry - so far, nothing has changed here and I don't see that changing (haha) any time soon.
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Old 20-01-2016, 00:23   #36
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Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

Lizzy Belle - yes, nothing changed in Finland so far either, except the general mood. It has less to do with terrorist acts than the increased influx of refugees, friction with the local population and media (trad. and social) attention to immigrant transgressions here. I was referring mostly to plans to re-introduce cross border passport controls and such within the EU - a sad, but probably necessary development.

Hope to spend some time in Amsterdam during the summer. Need to start checking marinas and order some charts
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Old 20-01-2016, 04:03   #37
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Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

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Lizzy Belle - yes, nothing changed in Finland so far either, except the general mood. It has less to do with terrorist acts than the increased influx of refugees, friction with the local population and media (trad. and social) attention to immigrant transgressions here. I was referring mostly to plans to re-introduce cross border passport controls and such within the EU - a sad, but probably necessary development.



Hope to spend some time in Amsterdam during the summer. Need to start checking marinas and order some charts

Just realize how lucky you are living in a very well organized human rights respecting part of the world. Think about effect on us cruisers who are in. east Africa, or Asia, or Pacific islands...
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Old 20-01-2016, 05:47   #38
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Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

Not to be un-PC but unless you could easily be confused with those that the locals have friction with, no one is going to pay much attention to you. If your average guy from northern Wisconson shows up in Norway, they aren't going to be made to feel unwelcome because of the immigration issues.

As far as cruisers being a target...not so much. The goal is to instill fear. Doesn't put a lot of fear into the general population blowing up those "evil 1%ers", which is what most people see when they look at yatchs bobbing at anchor. Going after subway stations, concerts, football stadiums...places where you average joe visits regularly and they can hurt a lot of people creates fear.
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Old 20-01-2016, 05:56   #39
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pirate Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

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Not to be un-PC but unless you could easily be confused with those that the locals have friction with, no one is going to pay much attention to you. If your average guy from northern Wisconson shows up in Norway, they aren't going to be made to feel unwelcome because of the immigration issues.

As far as cruisers being a target...not so much. The goal is to instill fear. Doesn't put a lot of fear into the general population blowing up those "evil 1%ers", which is what most people see when they look at yatchs bobbing at anchor. Going after subway stations, concerts, football stadiums...places where you average joe visits regularly and they can hurt a lot of people creates fear.
To Logical mate..!!
Its a Murphy Thing... wrong place, wrong time.. more likely to be blown up flying to your boat than being attacked while sailing it..
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Old 20-01-2016, 06:02   #40
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Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

Yep, the fear isn't that you're going to get shot/kidnapped/sliced/blown up. My fear is that we're going to get taxed/fee'ed/permitted/regulated to death (death by a thousand cuts).
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Old 20-01-2016, 07:02   #41
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Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

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I am extremely concerned with effect of intensifying terrorism and influence on our freedom of movement as cruising sailors, I for one love the cruising sailors life because of the way we could hop countries around the globe's oceans.
We all long for the "good old days" but they are not coming back. Better get used to it.
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Old 20-01-2016, 07:57   #42
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Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

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We all long for the "good old days" but they are not coming back. Better get used to it.
Maybe I'm just not old enough to really enjoy the nostalgia of the "good old days" but if it were the "good old days" I would be sitting in an office rather than looking out from the salon at the med while working because 30yrs ago, there is no way I could work remotely like I do now.
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Old 20-01-2016, 08:18   #43
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Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

Local culture, wherever it is, governs how "strangers" are treated, strangers being taken to mean not only visitors, but alternate lifestylers. In the 1980's, when I lived aboard in the SF Bay area (NOT a liveaboard haven), people's faces would cloud, noticeably, when I mentioned I lived aboard. "Isn't it cold? Isn't it wet?etc.etc" all masking the thought that I was next to homeless. When I moved to Southern California, the reaction was totally opposite. "That sounds really cool. How exciting, etc. etc" was how I was now greeted. In the Caribbean, no one seems to care, one way or the other.

My point is that the attitudes of officials and communities toward "strangers" is likely to shape with how they now deal with trying to prevent terrorist acts. Places that are inherently less tolerant, more bureaucratic, and fraught with an over-reliance on government, rules and regs, are likely to become even more so. Being politically correct, by the way, is not the same as being tolerant! And, more flexible places and folks are likely to remain more flexible.

So, if the OP is having bad experiences where he is, perhaps that would always have been so, but now it is "easier" for the intolerant of strangers to be even more so.

I wouldn't worry too much, but in many places, I would expect more red tape. But get out and about with the locals, and your one on one relationships are unlikely to be any different than before. Stay in your insulated cocoon, and maybe things will be different and those whose nature it is to suspect, will find you suspicious.

Forget political correctness, but remember the rules you were taught as a kid about politeness, tact, and courtesy, and you should do fine. And I doubt that terrorists will ever lay their eyes on you.
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Old 20-01-2016, 09:10   #44
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pirate Re: Freedom of Movement Around our Globe, aftermath of Paris

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Originally Posted by Goosebumps View Post
Imagine cruising South African coast. One is not allowed to anchor outside dedicated areas which are or small craft port or marinas. Ok coast doesn't have much anchoring opps but all the same when you enter the dedicated anchor or mooring areas the maritime police sets upon you, searches you, questions you as a potential terrorist. If you choose to tie up to the pier or wall in port, where you don't pay expect authorities to harrass you until you leave to pay to stay area. The grilling, abuse has now gotten so bad, certainly if you are considered a free spirit who might have non-conformist ideas. Added to that if you have an African wife, mind you we are in Africa now, the all white maritime police harrasses you even more. They got fines for everything. You forgot to pay port tax which gives you sticker to stick to my cockpit window, you didn't radio with correct procedure, you arrived after their office closed, you didn't do customs, maritime police, port authority, SAMSA in time ir in the right order. Welcome to South Africa in the time of terrorist paranoia. I actually had 4 R5's pointed at me one tome I visited Richard's Bay, reason Inlooked and behaved suspect, as I first tied upntonwall at Zululand Club where the cost to stay in marina was above my budget at the time, again getting stared at with my African partner! SonInwentbto tie up at wall of port international arrivals with mentioned reception as a result. Ok an R5 in my face I can take but that one of the officers, a seargent, was so drunk his speech was affected, no that scared the hell out of me. Don't go to Royal Cape Club marina in Cape Town unless you got bank account with plenty, you are non-liveaboard and don't plan to overnight on your yacht inside the marina. That is suspect behavior!
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