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Old 26-02-2016, 23:36   #46
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pirate Re: First solo sail on the ICW

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I've just gone back and counted: After 2,114 posts thomm225 has mentioned that he raced beach cats 2,114 times. We know Thom, we know.
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Old 27-02-2016, 06:11   #47
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Re: First solo sail on the ICW

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Originally Posted by mark rocco mont View Post
So i went to ASA over the summer, read and watched many DVD's and books...just bought a 22ft Catalina... .went out on the boat twice with the person i bought her from who has showed me a thing or three...he has a captain license... question. If i were to sail with just one sail which would it be ..the main or the jib ? just until i feel comfortable...thank you all in advance mark rocco
If you were to sail with just one sail AND wanted to be able to control your boat it would be the mainsail.

This applies to all sloop rigged boats.

If the wind is up, you cannot point into the wind with the jib alone and you could get blown ashore

This is a simple fact.

It doesn't matter if 3 people disagree with me or 300 nice people with great cruising skills disagree. It's still a fact

It's the reason when they do build a boat with just one sail it has a main.

If you don't muddy the waters buy talking mast position fore and aft etc, it's quite easy to see why the main is the sail.

Basic rule:

When you sheet in the jib, the bow is blown off the wind.

Ease the jib, and sheet in the main, the bow turns into the wind

I'm not sure why others are having trouble with this. Maybe I wasn't polite enough explaining it.

Back when we first started this debate the scene I witnessed below actually happened. It should help those having trouble understanding that the main is the sail to have on a sloop rigged boat if you had to chose either main or jib

Example, shortly after this discussion, I sailed out on a brisk fall day. The wind was maybe 17 knots plus (N-NNE) with good size waves having built up coming down the bay directly into the mouth of the creek

I shut the motor down early and sailed out which took forever because the tide was coming in fast also.

In the mean time, these 4 other guys on their Columbia 26 motored out. We waved and were happy to be going out.

When they got out while they were getting knocked around by the waves they raised their jib and took off! Problem was they started getting blown back toward land. They had already gotten passed the port jetty but now were being blown toward some other rocks. Their heading was maybe WSW by that time.

I'm sailing with both main and jib on a heading of about NW without a problem. I set the autopilot then had to climb back and get the engine raised and tied up. It's an outboard thing and part of the process on a $2,000.00 boat.

All this time I was watching them in case they wanted help. Finally they lower sail and motored back out in the bay a bit to get round the jetty and back in they went.

Had they raised the main alone they could have made progress into the wind but it would have been slower that main and jib

If they didn't have an engine, their boat would have been on the beach or in the rocks because like some others on here, they didn't know which sail to use if they were only going to use one sail in that situation.

At the least, they could have motor sailed into the wind with the main, but they tried that with the jib and continued to get blown off their heading.

If you cannot understand this point now, there is nothing else I can say to make you understand.

Maybe buy and race a beach cat?!

Good Luck,

Tom
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Old 27-02-2016, 06:30   #48
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Re: First solo sail on the ICW

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now, there is nothing else I can say
Tom
I hope so...
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Old 27-02-2016, 06:33   #49
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Re: First solo sail on the ICW

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post


I've just gone back and counted: After 2,114 posts thomm225 has mentioned that he raced beach cats 2,114 times.
Thanks Blue Crab for bringing up my favorite subject, but I'm thinking that number should be closer to 1691 because I've owned four beach cats and only one monohull.

I did sail (mainly race) the beach cats a few years there 10 months out of the year though. At first, we just liked to fly the hull and go fast then we got into racing

It's a great way to have fun with your son if he is interested. The problem is though when they get to be around 15-16 years old all they want to do is be around girls and seem to forget all about racing sailboats


When that happened I had to buy a one up beach cat. (beach cat for a singlehander) which was rigged with mainsail only.......plus spinnaker.
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Old 27-02-2016, 07:05   #50
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Re: First solo sail on the ICW

Yes, 1691 times is probably more accurate. The other times were telling everyone how smelly and unreliable diesels are. And advising folks to put an outboard on the transom of 35 footers.

FWIW, my Pearson sails, points, and tacks quite well under headsail only. Even down to 7-8 knots or so. Also faster than main alone in the same wind. Main is a bit worn out.

To the OP. Use one sail if you wish, either one. You'll learn what's up soon enough. Work towards using both as soon as possible, it won't take long. Go out on weekdays, not weekends at first if possible. Or overcast days, both will have less traffic. Sail an area with room to make mistakes.
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Old 27-02-2016, 07:14   #51
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Re: First solo sail on the ICW

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Yes, 1691 times is probably more accurate. The other times were telling everyone how smelly and unreliable diesels are. And advising folks to put an outboard on the transom of 35 footers.

FWIW, my Pearson sails, points, and tacks quite well under headsail only. Even down to 7-8 knots or so. Also faster than main alone in the same wind. Main is a bit worn out.

To the OP. Use one sail if you wish, either one. You'll learn what's up soon enough. Work towards using both as soon as possible, it won't take long. Go out on weekdays, not weekends at first if possible. Or overcast days, both will have less traffic. Sail an area with room to make mistakes.
Now you are misleading people with the above statements. That's fine; I get it.

Remember though, I'm just here to learn about cruising. I wouldn't want to get into a prolonged argument with a guy anchored in a tropical paradise with nothing to do but work on his boat.

I won't even get into your sail selection because I have read enough of your posts also, and you don't have a lot of experience.

I do miss sailing down there in your neck of the woods though

I sailed my Nacra 6.0 west over to the Redneck Riviera several times from Pensacola. It's was great until Ivan destroyed some of the old restaurants etc.

Ivan was a bastard of a hurricane. My lady friend wouldn't even come out from under her stairwell the whole night
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Old 27-02-2016, 07:20   #52
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pirate Re: First solo sail on the ICW

OP: And don't be lulled into going downwind first.

....................

Everyone else:

... Maybe buy and race a beach cat?!

Good Luck,

Tom

Nice save, Cap.
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Old 27-02-2016, 07:30   #53
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pirate Re: First solo sail on the ICW

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Now you are misleading people with the above statements. That's fine; I get it. ... Ivan was a bastard of a hurricane. My lady friend wouldn't even come out from under her stairwell the whole night
Pets are funny that way!








Sorry Tom, I couldn't resist. Peace brother.
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Old 27-02-2016, 07:32   #54
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Re: First solo sail on the ICW

Yes I'm lucky to have the Gulf Coast as my home turf. Can't afford to go RTW. Going up the East Coast this year and looking forward to it.

Only six years experience. That's when I bought the boat and been aboard full time since. Wish I could claim the ubiquitous "been sailing for 40 years". But alas, there is only one day in every 24 hours.

Did sail my Hobie18 on the lake back home, but never raced. I was the only sailboat on the lake though. It certainly wouldn't tack headsail alone. First experience was beach cats in Biloxi in 1981 while in school for the military.
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Old 27-02-2016, 16:13   #55
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Re: First solo sail on the ICW

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
Pets are funny that way!
Okay Little Man, now I know what I'm dealing with. When you grow up, try crawling out of the gutter.

I'm hoping you are less than 30 years old.
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Old 27-02-2016, 16:40   #56
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Re: First solo sail on the ICW

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
He asked if you have one sail to choose to sail with, which would it be?

I took him literally whereas you considered the type boat he was sailing...
HUH? Perhaps a reading comprehension issue?

He said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark rocco mont View Post
So i ...just bought a 22ft Catalina....question if i were to sail with just one sail which would it be ..the main or the jib ?
So, sure, I'd guess he MUST be asking about your illustrious beach cat.
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Old 27-02-2016, 16:54   #57
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Re: First solo sail on the ICW

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HUH? Perhaps a reading comprehension issue?

He said:


So, sure, I'd guess he MUST be asking about your illustrious beach cat.
I play chess a lot online. (chess.com. Thomm225)

When people lose, they do the most extraordinary things to get out of it. It's amazing.

The same is happening here

You are still wrong.

Have I mentioned this before? You can learn sailing from racing beach cats. Do I need to explain or isn't it obvious here

https://vimeo.com/139221229

And for you folks that may actually be interested in really learning sailing checkout Glen Ashby here.

https://vimeo.com/139455209

This sport is really awesome. It takes brains, planning, knowledge of current, water depth, tide, rig set up, sail selection as in fullness, prebend amount, rake, and lots more.

On a 165 lb A Class Catamaran your sail is determined by your body weight and the wind speed of the day the race occurs.
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Old 27-02-2016, 16:56   #58
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Old 28-02-2016, 16:13   #59
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Re: First solo sail on the ICW

I'm thinking I can understand why many here are not getting my point as far as sail selection due to their dependency on engines. (and lack of racing skills or the fact that they simply never raced)

They sail out, raise a sail .... which one doesn't matter because the direction doesn't matter, sail a bit, lower sail and motor in.

Why would they need to know which sail could get them off a leeshore when their engine failed unless they had actually experienced it or thought it through? (you cannot point into heavy wind without a mainsail)

Another problem is the misconceived notion that just because a person knows how to make money and owns a $200,000 - $400,000 sailboat, he knows how to sail.

That's right, maybe the guy on the Hobie 16 that paid $1,500.00 for his boat that's been sailing, racing, and dealing with boats for 40 years knows a lot more.

Check out this video. (and by the way, the boats that are not racing are sailing around with main only. I wonder why that is?)

These skippers know a bit. James Spithill and Chris Dixon. Watch how they use their sails to turn their boats in the prestart then later much more quickly than you could with just the rudder. You may need to watch many times to see all their superior sailing skills.

The video is not in English, but does it matter? It's sailing.

If you don't know Spithill, see the second video. (ouch! He sailed a cat in the Americas Cup)




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Old 29-02-2016, 18:07   #60
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Re: First solo sail on the ICW

For the benefit of new sailors, it has become quite clear by this thread that learning to sail on a 25' plus monohull isn't the best way to go about it. (unless you have many years or tons of time to do so) It appears some still never learn the basics

The OP even went to a class. 101 something

I went to a lake on with a Hobie 16 I bought for $1,500.00 with zero sailing experience then raced for 15 years

You can learn (SAILING) faster with a small catamaran or monohull like a laser than you can going to class or holding a sheet as crew on a big boat.

On a small boat, YOU are the skipper. YOU call the tacks if you race. (or if you don't race. You learn fast by your mistakes)

Just do so in a safe place like a lake at first or narrow ICW.

I'm actually here to learn cruising but continually end up in arguments on basic sailing skills.

I still have trouble sailing 20 miles on the same tack for 4 hours plus with nothing to do but trim sails. I'm used to having to do 40-50 plus tacks and gybes during the same period of time racing.

My goal is to learn cruising and patience having already learn sailing on small boats while racing.

Don't be confused though, sailing is sailing whether you sail 500 miles on a single tack or 10 miles on 50 tacks




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