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Old 05-04-2016, 14:59   #16
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Re: Fenders

All of the above.

We tend to deploy a breast anchor when we can under those conditions.

Another option, if tidal range is small, and you have enough, is to tie some fenders to the quay rather than to the boat. Depends on how much everything is moving, but that can greatly reduce strain on the fenders and the boat. We usually have sufficient on board to fender both sides of the boat, so moving one or two to the quay when side tied is easy.
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Old 05-04-2016, 15:27   #17
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Re: Fenders

Nylon ropes and new, larger fenders all good ideas.
However hanging from the toe-rail does not give much length for the rope to stretch and the load from roll can stretch the skin making it break.
Fenders with attachment points each end & tied more or less horizontally would have a better chance of not being ripped.
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Old 06-04-2016, 03:07   #18
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Re: Fenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by darylat8750 View Post
+1 on the Big Red Balls.
Also agree that 12" diameter cylinders are much better than 10"

We carry 4 twelve inch cylinders and 4 smaller ones (the smaller ones came with the boat) plus 2 balls. Deflated they take up space but not as bad as you would think. We nearly always have 4 big cylinders inflated and ready to go. We can inflate and deflate with a shop vac run off the inverter so it doesn't take forever to configure as required. When running a bunch of canal locks we buy several exercise balls from wally world and several mesh laundry bags (2 bags per ball as they are a little wimpy) very cheap and we put 3 on each side, backed up by real fenders. This keeps most of the crud from the lock walls off the good fenders and gives a lot of cushion. These exercise balls would not stand up to real surge.

One other note. I used to keep my fenders inflated too firmly. I had a friend travel with me from Racine Wi down to Tennessee who had much experience (In his youth he had crewed on Ticonderoga in the days of cotton sails!) and he mentioned that a little softer would work better. After trying his way I agree. They seem to stay in place better a little soft.
That's interesting, keep them a little softer. They would probably last longer too. Of course we would all like bigger fenders and more of them but space is limited. A common rule of thumb is one inch of diameter for every five feet of boat but perhaps that is a bit meagre in severe conditions.
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Old 06-04-2016, 05:32   #19
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Re: Fenders

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Originally Posted by Rualda View Post
I would like to hear some ideas about the use of fenders under extreme conditions. Last year I was in Corinth harbour lying against the quay in very high winds and a nasty swell. With each wave the boat was being picked up and thrown against the harbour wall. All the fenders burst but they did continue to provide protection until the lifeline broke. There is more to this but I will leave it at that. It seems to me that the ropes for the fenders need some elasticity because as the boat meets the wall it also rolls and that places huge stresses on the way the fenders are attached. Although I have often read reports and comments on Cruisers Forum, this is my first post.
Welcome to CF

I burst a fender in high winds against a dock last winter. They are not that infallible. Mine was a relatively new one, pvc type. Commonly blue and white. and it wasn't the rope that broke first it was the fender burst.

If you can get them there, the flat or square fenders are much better.

Tyres I suspect would mark your boat quite badly.
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Old 06-04-2016, 05:55   #20
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pirate Re: Fenders

If the OP is where I think he is.. the Corinth Canal.. there's not much choice in the neighbourhood to run to.. commercial docks to the N and lee shores in any other possible direction.
Sounds like he's either just come through headed E or waiting to go W.. there's nowhere else to tie up.. just the harbour wall.. he could have risked anchoring off a lee shore.. however if the chop was that bad inside the breakwaters it'd have been lumpier out by a bit..
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Old 06-04-2016, 14:20   #21
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Re: Fenders

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Originally Posted by Rualda View Post
A common rule of thumb is one inch of diameter for every five feet of boat but perhaps that is a bit meagre in severe conditions.
In my area (N Biscay), this is not enough. In moderate conditions and a "friendly" pontoon, I need at least 4 7-inch fenders on one side of a 30-foot yacht.

Maybe fenders are to be sized as anchors: increase their size until your dock neighbors laugh at them...

Alain
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Old 06-04-2016, 14:50   #22
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Re: Fenders

Been there, done that. Never again.
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Old 06-04-2016, 17:31   #23
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Re: Fenders

Never been thinking of fender scalability ...

Anyways: on our 26'er the fenders are (six units) of 12 inch diameter plus one that we call the big bear which is 16 inch dia. (We lost the other yogi bera on the passage.)

IMHO some fender diameters quoted above are more like fair weather marina use only.

In windy places I place the two yogis apart and two smaller fenders closer to the beam (big/small/maxbeam/small/big). This way I normally get four fenders taking the full blow all at once. The boat does not oscillate nor roll along. Six lines (two springs, two breasts, and one fore and one aft). This is the matrix as each time is a bit different.

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Old 06-04-2016, 17:52   #24
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Re: Fenders

Fenders don't work well when there is lots of up-and-down motion. Best to have a berth where lines will hold the boat from touching the dock. At my berth, I use four lines on both sides of the boat to avoid contact: bow, stern, and two breast lines..
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Old 07-04-2016, 09:34   #25
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Re: Fenders

Posting this because it is fender related and the event that happened is not something I would have thought could happen...

Quick summary is that the couple were watching a super yacht being docked in tight quarters with a swell. Fenders and fender lines were stressed and a line broke which hit Jennifer and broker her clavicle.

Quote:
Yesterday evening, Jennifer got hit by a snapping line from the super yacht on the dock beside us. The line hit hard enough to break Jenís clavicle (collar) bone. Itís now a bit of a mess with the bone broken through, displaced and overlapping. The doctors are confident it will heal well but I know from having done the same thing myself in the past, itíll take a month and will leave a big knot of bone when it does heal.
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In this situation, the 150′ boat beside us was moving moderately in the surge. We were watching the 197′ super yacht Slipstream arrive. It was an impressive docking with the nearly 200′ Slipstream just barely managing to clear the 150′ Four Jacks while staying off the rocks that mark the edge of the channel, rotate the stern around, and then back into the slip. As the crew of Slipstream were tying off there was a medium swell moving through the marina and all the boats were moving somewhat more than normal. As the super yacht Four Jacks moved around in the swell, it was apparently putting incredible load on itís inflatable fenders. These fenders are massive and I suspect what happened is one was pinned against the dock while the boat was rolling away and it stretched out the fender line to its limits. The fender top mounting pulled off the boat and sling-shotted towards the fender, propelled by the fender line nearing itís stretch limit. I suspect the fender was also stretched out before the line let go, delivering yet more energy into the gear that snapped off the boat and accelerated towards the ground. When it hit Jennifer standing on the dock below, it snapped her collarbone. I would have never thought it possible that a fender line could pack enough force to break a bone but it does show the energy that heavily loaded lines can pack.
The full story with photos is here, A Bit of a Setback on Dirona | MV Dirona

This is not something I would have thought about and I wonder if one could have even noticed the threat before it happened... The accident was with a ship, aka super yacht, so the forces were huge and not likely to be seen by most boaters. Though I would be concerned with a snapping line and eye or teeth damage. Had a family member hit in the eye by a snapping/slipping bungie cord... They were lucky in that eye was not lost.

Later,
Dan
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Old 07-04-2016, 16:38   #26
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Re: Fenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by dannc View Post
Posting this because it is fender related and the event that happened is not something I would have thought could happen...

Quick summary is that the couple were watching a super yacht being docked in tight quarters with a swell. Fenders and fender lines were stressed and a line broke which hit Jennifer and broker her clavicle.

The full story with photos is here, A Bit of a Setback on Dirona | MV Dirona

This is not something I would have thought about and I wonder if one could have even noticed the threat before it happened... The accident was with a ship, aka super yacht, so the forces were huge and not likely to be seen by most boaters. Though I would be concerned with a snapping line and eye or teeth damage. Had a family member hit in the eye by a snapping/slipping bungie cord... They were lucky in that eye was not lost.

Later,
Dan
They were lucky in that it didn't hit her in the head and kill her too

ONe of those freak things of being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
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Old 07-04-2016, 17:54   #27
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Re: Fenders

The method depends a lot on your shape & weight. I agree the 8 inch seems small for 40 feet even if you are light. We are 35 tons and a swell on a wall is impossible even with a lot of big fenders. Its even too mush for our 5 foot X 6 inch wide by 2 inch thick teak dock boards with 3/4 inch SS embedded bars. Tried it once and stayed only moments - the looming disaster was clear.


I like the kedge idea if you need to stay a while.
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Old 07-04-2016, 19:14   #28
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Re: Fenders

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rualda View Post
I would like to hear some ideas about the use of fenders under extreme conditions. Last year I was in Corinth harbour lying against the quay in very high winds and a nasty swell. With each wave the boat was being picked up and thrown against the harbour wall. All the fenders burst but they did continue to provide protection until the lifeline broke. There is more to this but I will leave it at that. It seems to me that the ropes for the fenders need some elasticity because as the boat meets the wall it also rolls and that places huge stresses on the way the fenders are attached. Although I have often read reports and comments on Cruisers Forum, this is my first post.
Fenders wont survive when overloaded. More is better.

We have a fender board that holds lots of little fenders to spread the loads if the fenders all fail we still have the sacrificial board and deflated fenders to provide some protection. Haven't tested it to destruction yet..

Tires will survive much longer then fenders under extreme loading conditions.

One of our floating home neighbours in berkely suffered multiple fender failures during a recent storm.

I convinced him to use tires as a backup and commericial fenders which have a larger surface area.

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Old 07-04-2016, 19:31   #29
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Re: Fenders

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Originally Posted by valhalla360 View Post
As others have said...first option is don't be there. If you get stuck there for some reason out of your control..


Reality in the conditions you described, it's a crapshoot. Oversize fenders help and check them for damage periodically (kind of hard if you are being thrown around like that).


Tying them to the toe rail sounds nice but is often impractical. If the dock/quay is high, they won't sit nicely if tied at the toe rail.


Another option: Was it possible to set an anchor or two to help hold you off or at least absorb some of the force, med moor style? Our spain boat is in a quasi med moor (side to but with lazy lines to hold her out). Normally, we leave her close for easy boarding but if strong winds are forcast or we will be away, we tighten up the lazy lines to pull her away from the dock.
Rualda,
I think Valhalla's suggestion of setting a few anchors out to hold you off the quay is the best suggestion yet. It really IMO is the only solution when you can't move. On Palarran I have F7 fenders, lots of them, and a few A5 round fenders. On Santorini I was caught between two boats in the same situation where I couldn't get off the quay. My fenders were blowing out and I had to stand on the quay all night and push them back into the water and replace burned out dock lines. Putting out two anchors and pulling the boat out off the wall did the trick.

Anyone been into Santorini Marina in 2013?
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