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Old 25-02-2012, 01:57   #1
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Family World Cruise

Hi all - new to the forum, I'm hoping I can pick your collective brains.

Our plan, as a UK-based family (there's five of us, including three youngish children), is to spend at least 3 or 4 years sailing the world. We are experienced travellers though not widely experienced sailors - we are naturally going to put that right before we go anywhere as a family.

Our fighting fund for this trip is our entire savings plus house sale, all in amounting to something like $350,000. Naturally I want to spend as little of this amount as possible (and sensible) on the yacht itself. We need to have a good reserve of cash to spend time ashore as and when we feel we need it.

My question is choice of yacht for a family - I'm thinking something in the 40-45 ft range. The boat needs to be capable of making passages but equally needs to be spacious, dry and modern to make family life bearable. I'm hoping to negotiate hard and spend around $100,000, so I assume that means we're looking only at monohulls.

I'm drawn to the Beneteaus/Hunters etc. but would appreciate your views on whether these types of modern yacht would be sensible choices for us and whether $100,000 is sufficient to buy a good example? In which part of the world can the better bargains be had? I had a thought that I might like to buy in the US and experience an Atlantic crossing before taking my family to the Med.

Many thanks

Dominic
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Old 25-02-2012, 02:04   #2
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Re: Family world cruise

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Originally Posted by dominiccc View Post
Hi all - new to the forum, I'm hoping I can pick your collective brains.

Our plan, as a UK-based family (there's five of us, including three youngish children), is to spend at least 3 or 4 years sailing the world. We are experienced travellers though not widely experienced sailors - we are naturally going to put that right before we go anywhere as a family.

Our fighting fund for this trip is our entire savings plus house sale, all in amounting to something like $350,000. Naturally I want to spend as little of this amount as possible (and sensible) on the yacht itself. We need to have a good reserve of cash to spend time ashore as and when we feel we need it.

My question is choice of yacht for a family - I'm thinking something in the 40-45 ft range. The boat needs to be capable of making passages but equally needs to be spacious, dry and modern to make family life bearable. I'm hoping to negotiate hard and spend around $100,000, so I assume that means we're looking only at monohulls.

I'm drawn to the Beneteaus/Hunters etc. but would appreciate your views on whether these types of modern yacht would be sensible choices for us and whether $100,000 is sufficient to buy a good example? In which part of the world can the better bargains be had? I had a thought that I might like to buy in the US and experience an Atlantic crossing before taking my family to the Med.

Many thanks

Dominic
bear in mind as an eu citizen any vessel brought into the eu needs to be rcd complient and vat paid.
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Old 25-02-2012, 02:26   #3
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Re: Family world cruise

Welcome Dominic.
Cant see any reason why you couldnt find a suitable Cat for your family for $100,000 or less.
Unless you are looking to go brand new.
Lots of room on the Cats many for sale around your price range.
There's even a 50 foot Trimaran Luxury Yacht in British Columbia for around $50,000 its even got its own library/study, and Workshop.
Good luck to your Family.
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Old 25-02-2012, 03:48   #4
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Re: Family world cruise

Welcome aboard, Dominic! Hope your plans set sail. I think your numbers look good for a mono or a multi...keep in mind, a typical 40ft cat has the living space of maybe a 44ft mono. Whatever you look at, only consider the total cost of getting the boat ready to sail...better to pay 15,000 more for a boat that's cruising-ready than finding you need to spend 30,000 to get the cheaper one outfitted. Happy Sailing!
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Old 25-02-2012, 03:49   #5
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Re: Family world cruise

yeah youll get hammered with vat buying from the carib and bringing back, plenty of similar boats in croatia with same tax status already in the med, 40 -45 mono sound son the ball, ex charter will be more likely for a 60-70k budget
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Old 25-02-2012, 04:46   #6
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Re: Family world cruise

Beneteaus, depending on certain models and with a bit of additional fitout could meet your requirements, Hunters, hmmmmmm, i'm no fan.

Firstly $100,000 in the 45 foot range ( i.e. 70 sterling) won't buy much. If your technically minded and enjoy a fixer upper then maybe. Id suggest 125K sterling of around 150K dollars more likely, especially buying in Europe. Bringing a US boat into Europe isn't a great idea.( VAT RCD. etc)

Then you have to decide what you want. are you marina hopping, are you going to spend a lot of time in the med, will you anchor out most nights. Are you staying in the 40N to 40S bracket ( "the milk run"). What is your partners experience and expectation, what are your combined expectation as requires comfort and connivence

Are you technical , can you repair a boat

You mention lack of experience sailing, this needs careful examination, maybe you need to start simple ( like a 6 months spin in the med). Jumping into a boat and doing an Atlantic crossing isn't for the inexperienced.

A big thing is your partners experience and outlook.

It would seem that you and her should do some crewing and sailing first to see what you like,

Dave
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Old 25-02-2012, 05:19   #7
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Re: Family world cruise

Thanks guys for that quick helpful advice.

To answer those questions - we're intending to take it very easy indeed: marina hopping, the milk run, lots of stop-overs, etc. Goboatingnow mentions the Beneteau - which are the better models/sizes/years for our purposes? What additional fitouts would you recommend over and above the basic boat?

Thanks again
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Old 25-02-2012, 06:16   #8
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Re: Family world cruise

id be looking at the ex charter Croatian boats, much easier to get to than the carib,60k will get you a 40-45 boat from 5-10 years old, either pay the tax on it taking you to 70 or keep it out of eu waters and dont pay any tax! There are random checks on tax on boats but they are rare so you coud pay no tax and try and slip by the radar.
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Old 25-02-2012, 06:50   #9
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Re: Family world cruise

I think you are likely to find much better bargains in the US or the Caribbean than in Europe. With five people one of the boats designed for chartering might make sense since they are built with more sleeping areas (and the kids will grow!) If you got an ex-charter it would need work so it would make sense to locate somewhere with good access to parts and trades. Best would be Florida since prices for upgrades would be best there, but you would need to find a do-it-yourself marina.

You really need to do most work yourself or the costs of fix-up and cruising will kill you + in many parts of the world, other than diesel mechanics it is impossible to get work done. You also will save enormous amounts by anchoring most of the time + in many places there are not marinas. So don't skimp on ground tackle - helps the sleeping at night.

As to routing, if you are starting in the US or Caribbean it makes most sense to head west into the Pacfic first and then go to the Med on the way back. Who knows, by then they may have sorted out the pirate problem and you can to via the Red Sea. A good plan might be to buy in the US or Caribbean and then plan to spend the first winter in the Eastern Caribbean, learning and testing the boat. The sailing is very nice and the distances between anchorages is not far (at most an overnight). Then go to somewhere like Grenada for hurricane season before heading to Panama in November. A really good resource for planning is World Cruising Routes by Jimmy Cornell - tells you the wheres and whens for the whole world.

As to the boat choice, I think a catamaran might be bettter for a young family but everything being equal they are more expensive. Also, what you plan to do with the boat when you get back home? A cat can be a problem in areas not setup for them. Also cats are much more costly if you do go to marinas - generally 1.4 t0 2x the price of a mono. BTW, I can't comment on what is involved in taking a boat into the EU, but lots of people do it.
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Old 25-02-2012, 10:40   #10
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Re: Family world cruise

I would love a cat, but don't want to leave us short of a chunky cruising fund! It really has to be $100,000 - $120,000 max. There's not many modern cats in this price range, as far as I can see.

I think I need to understand a little more about the VAT/RCD implications of buying in the US/Caribbean to which Atoll and others have alluded. Any thoughts on the best model Beneteau (others) for our budget/purpose?

Cheers again everyone.
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Old 25-02-2012, 11:34   #11
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Re: Family world cruise

Hi Dominic, & Welcome to Cruisers Forum! We had a bit more $$ than you're trying to get away with, but you can get some real bargains in the Caribbean. The Eastern Caribbean is also a GREAT place to get used to cruising, as the islands are only a day sail apart, & mostly across the wind.

But we'd strongly suggest getting the older kids their own cabins, & that probably means a multi. We've seen several cruising families who've had to move ashore because the kids weren't happy. When the kids are happy, the whole boat's happy. Something to really consider.

I agree with Aini that Ex-charter boats will have lots of beds so might suit your needs well. Charter boats want some modifications to make them into good cruising boats (mainly getting rid of systems that rely on engine power) but they're comfortable (& running the engines may be cheaper than changing the systems, especially in the short run). We talk about what modifications we made (& why) but you certainly don't have to do all of that & you probably won't want to spend as much.

You don't say how old your kids are (ours were 12 & 15 when we started) but we've published an article on Cruising with Teens that might be relevant for you. In fact, if you're new at this, our Cruising Info section might have several pages that you'd find interesting.

If you're trying to save $$, get a good anchor (or 3) & a good dinghy & anchor out instead of staying at marinas. In 16 years of cruising, we almost never go to a marina unless we're taking a multi-day shore excursion (exploring inland & not sleeping aboard - Venezuela, Ecuador, Australia, SE Asia, Sri Lanka, South Africa, etc).
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Old 26-02-2012, 02:56   #12
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Re: Family world cruise

Many thanks Jon - I have been a regular visitor to your site, which has proved something of an inspiration! Actually our kids are younger -they'll be 7 (twins) and 6 when we hope to set off. We are older (mid-forties) so not entirely green!

I always fancied a cat (and have read widely about the advantages/disadvantages) but really assumed that our limited dollars (maybe up to $130,000, at a real push) would rule one out. I'll take another look - what cats would I be best looking at? Are there yacht brokers you would recommend/avoid in that Region?

Others have pointed out the VAT problems for us Brits buying on your side of the pond so I'll have to chase that issue up.

Anyway, many thanks again.
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Old 26-02-2012, 04:09   #13
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Re: Family world cruise

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
bear in mind as an eu citizen any vessel brought into the eu needs to be rcd complient and vat paid.
What if the boat is registered to a corporate entity in a non-EU or non-VAT country/region? Would an EU citizen on such a boat still be required to pay VAT?

Just thinking of BVI, Cayman, Bermuda, Panama, Seyshelles, etc boat registrations...
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Old 26-02-2012, 05:47   #14
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Re: Family world cruise

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Originally Posted by Katiusha View Post
What if the boat is registered to a corporate entity in a non-EU or non-VAT country/region? Would an EU citizen on such a boat still be required to pay VAT?

Just thinking of BVI, Cayman, Bermuda, Panama, Seyshelles, etc boat registrations...
there is a lot of info on cf about this my best advise would be if buying a cheap boat for use outside the eu is to resell it before returning.

or the owner becomes a tax resident of a non eu country,this allows ti for 18 months also the possability of tax free importation as a returning non resident.
this still leaves the problem of rcd compliance for boats built after 94 which i think is the cut off date..
though this is probably better discussed in another thread.
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Old 26-02-2012, 05:50   #15
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Re: Family world cruise

Many good advises up here! We are just a small family with one kid.
Marina charge, parts, and misc. Will eat all your money if you get a run down boat. A lagoon 380 in good condition will cost too much. But is what I think a very nice "house" for a family. A 2000 something low hour ben/bav/jean will be easy to find. I have seen many almost unused boats that the charter business "ruined" the market for and the private owned yacht sells for just a bit over. Some look almost like new.
Just an idea. Because if you run out of money or have a old boat that always giving you big projects there isnt much of the good nice cruising life left.

And a buy too good to be true..... ehhh

I have runned out of money to many times...... Old boat!
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