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Old 26-02-2012, 08:02   #16
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Re: Family world cruise

Way to go! Good to see other families planning on making the leap. There are five on our boat as well (and two dogs!). We are on a 36' union. Would've LOVED a little bigger hc. That extra cabin would have been appreciated. But better to make do and go sailing!
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Old 26-02-2012, 09:55   #17
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Re: Family world cruise

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Originally Posted by dominiccc View Post
Many thanks Jon - I have been a regular visitor to your site, which has proved something of an inspiration! ... what cats would I be best looking at? Are there yacht brokers you would recommend/avoid in that Region? ... Anyway, many thanks again.
Thank you for the kudos on the site! It takes us a LOT of time, & it's nice to know it's appreciated.

We're not really up on newer cats, but there are lots of Fontaine Pajot cats around, both in charter & cruising. They're mostly fiberglass so easy to clean & not many unnecessary frills. We pulled one off the rocks in Madagascar & it had very little damage, so they're obviously strong boats. We might have bought one but Sue didn't fit in the galley.

We used Phillip Berman as our buyer broker in 2001, about when he was setting up The Multihull Company (now one of the biggest multihull brokerages in the world). He likes racier cats (he was a Hobie champion) but he did a better inspection of Ocelot than the (nitwit) surveyor we hired in St Marten. Of course, Google is probably the best source of boats for sale.
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Old 26-02-2012, 11:34   #18
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Re: Family world cruise

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3 or 4 years sailing the world.
You are starting off on a sound basis - a decent budget, and not intending to use a Pedallo, Lilo or Jetski (do a search ). Plus you have found CF .

Not sure if your plans are to go RTW or simply(?!) sail around the world - if the former will have to bear in mind that the Indian Ocean / Suez Canal route is pretty much closed due to Somali Piracy (do another search - a squillion threads ), therefore looking towards South Africa (or the boat goes by ship / by delivery skipper / by self - with a lucky rabbit's foot). Pretty much anything of the 40/45' foot size, in good order and with a few addons is capable of going pretty much anywhere (that someone sane would go!).....in the hands of a competent Skipper (and Crew).

IMO where to buy really depends on where you want to be - to my mind buying in USA / Carribean to start life in the Med seems a bit unneccessary, even if boats are cheaper and the RCD/VAT side of things can be overcome.

If you are intending to cruise the Med, then I would buy there. The upsides being that you can start slow and steady (you've already arrived ) with no pressure to acheive a long voyage - plus whatever you buy will (most likely) already be RCD compliant. VAT being a seperate matter (loads of threads on that - but basically if you are a resident of an EU Country, like the UK, then you can't avoid paying VAT if the boat is used within EU Waters).....personally, given your circumstances I would look closely at a boat coming out of charter from a tier 1 charter company (Sunsail), likely (a certainty?) that VAT will need to be paid at that point - but an easy calculation to do.

The plus being that a known quantity (mass produced models) and that won't be on it's last legs with someone selling you their deferred maintanence - after they have enjoyed the voyage(s) you envisage. Obviously will need a Survey on anything - especially as it sounds like this is your first foray into boat ownership (a learning curve in itself!). Downside is that won't come with many bells and whistles (and certainly not RTW capable) - but you get to fit what you want / need, and it's all new so (hopefully) will be a while before you get on the replacing clapped out gear merry-go-round.

Alternatively, start cruising in the Carribean on a boat bought there (again, I would seriously look at an ex-charter boat) - and then head off into the Pacific and worry about the EU VAT / RCD end of things in a few years, if you decide to take the boat back there - can sell it anywhere, including back in the Carribean.

Buying away from "home" is a PITA and does add up ($$$), mostly from not being there. Plus once bought not so easy to do work / manage others from a distance. But Boats is all about compromises and deciding what's important / what works for you.

Nice choices to have .
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Old 26-02-2012, 15:58   #19
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Re: Family world cruise

Dominicc

Just a word on VAT and RCD, As a UK tax resident, you will be required to pay VAT on the first importation of any foreign boat, ( i.e. not VAT paid). This will occur immediately on import.

Furthermore the boat must be RCD certified to import it into the EU. This rules out some US boats.

If you buy in the US or the Caribbean, you could delay the VAT till you reach the EU, and then you'll have to pay it, You will be able to argue the financial value of the boat as it will be less then you payed for it.

However I would agree with DOJ, start in the Med, its not took far from home, summer sailing is relatively simple ( in general, but can get hairy), factor in a bit of marina living to get SWMBO etc used to the change. Small steps, whereas a sudden relocation to the Carribean will be a big jump as the sailing is somewhat more challenging.

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Old 26-02-2012, 16:07   #20
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Re: Family world cruise

"Blue water boats" are akin to porn where it's hard to say what it is and what it isn't, but you know it when you see it. Hunters, to me, are not on the list.

Get a Hallberg Rassy or something of that nature. I'd recommend something like mine but there's a ton of maintenance involved.
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Old 26-02-2012, 16:14   #21
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Re: Family world cruise

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"Blue water boats" are akin to porn where it's hard to say what it is and what it isn't, but you know it when you see it. Hunters, to me, are not on the list.

Get a Hallberg Rassy or something of that nature. I'd recommend something like mine but there's a ton of maintenance involved.

Sorry Rebel Heart, thats just an opinion, firstly a HR will cost a fortune and its hard to see what you're paying for. Secondly a production boat like a Beneteau will definitely do the job , many have done so. Hunters I don't rate, I've had several experiences with them and they seem not to stand up to the use.

Beneteau, Catalina, Jeanneau, Bavaria, Hanse, etc will do the job if sailed conservatively and you understand what you have bought.


A blue water boat in my opinion is a boat sailing in blue water, after that its purely in the eye of the beholder.

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Old 26-02-2012, 18:18   #22
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Re: Family world cruise

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Sorry Rebel Heart, thats just an opinion, firstly a HR will cost a fortune and its hard to see what you're paying for. Secondly a production boat like a Beneteau will definitely do the job , many have done so. Hunters I don't rate, I've had several experiences with them and they seem not to stand up to the use.

Beneteau, Catalina, Jeanneau, Bavaria, Hanse, etc will do the job if sailed conservatively and you understand what you have bought.


A blue water boat in my opinion is a boat sailing in blue water, after that its purely in the eye of the beholder.

Dave
Not going to get into an argument on "blue water boats", but I've done deliveries on Benetaue's and Catalinas within the last year, the latter of which had the sea-kindliness of a jet ski. The former of which had a ~40 gallon diesel tank if I remember correctly, so the rest you're hauling on deck.

You can and I'm sure many have taken those into places that are treacherous and emerged unscathed. But thicker hulls, more conservative sail plans, bigger tanks, oversized chainplates and standing rigging, and keels that allow for easy heaving to are some of the things that add up to the infamous "blue water" category. The guy is asking for recommendations and he said it himself that he's not an excellent sailor with a ton of experience.

Not sure exactly what this is, but I think it's a Hunter.

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Old 27-02-2012, 02:37   #23
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Re: Family world cruise

Thank you all for your helpful advice, it really is most appreciated.

I have to say we're leaning towards a cat at the moment - the wife appreciates the extra internal space, it just means some hard bargaining to get the price down to around $130,000. To answer David_Old_Jersey we are planning to sail around the world, but slowly and along the least challenging of routes.

Whether we start from the Med or the US will be the debate we'll have for the next few months as we work out what the hell RCD compliance is and I paint the house and put it on the market!

Here's a separate question some of you might like to get your teeth into: if you could learn in depth a trade/skill of use not only to yourself as a sailor but possibly of use to earn a little cash from other members of the sailing fraternity what would it be? Diesel mechanic? Solar installations? Sail repair? That type of thing.......

Thanks again all
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Old 27-02-2012, 03:33   #24
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Re: Family world cruise

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Originally Posted by dominiccc View Post
Here's a separate question some of you might like to get your teeth into: if you could learn in depth a trade/skill of use not only to yourself as a sailor but possibly of use to earn a little cash from other members of the sailing fraternity what would it be? Diesel mechanic? Solar installations? Sail repair? That type of thing.......

Thanks again all
Lots of threads on that subject - but this one crops back up regularly and has many ideas, not all of them entirely practical ....but IMO worth a run through .

Make Money While Cruising - List

One thing you will have to bear in mind is that boat owners (with masts!) are notoriously tight..........
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Old 27-02-2012, 04:03   #25
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Re: Family world cruise

Many a family has self destructed on the reef of their cruising fantasies.

You sir, are asking entirely the wrong question. ("what kind of boat should I get?") The question should be..."what do you think of a family of five with no cruising experience, selling everything, spending their life savings and all cramming on a boat and mucking about for several years?"

I would suggest you reconsider such a venture until you have actually tried a few cruises together for a few months. It may work out great and you should then proceed asking the "which boat" questions, in fact you will at that point have your own well founded opinions on the matter.

Many a family has self destructed on the reef of their cruising fantasies.

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Old 27-02-2012, 04:38   #26
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Re: Family world cruise

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... if you could learn in depth a trade/skill of use not only to yourself as a sailor but possibly of use to earn a little cash from other members of the sailing fraternity what would it be? Diesel mechanic? Solar installations? Sail repair? ...
As David accurately points out, cruisers are notorious tightwads. But more to the point, the cruising community is very supportive of each other. This is so different from land-based life (in the US) that it's hard to imagine. If you need an expert, they will usually be around.

Most of us don't charge for our help. Cruisers out in the back of beyond tend to work on a Karmic Circle principle. It'll come back to you eventually, usually with interest. I can't count the number of friends we've made just from helping them out with computer or electrical problems. And friends are much more important than $$, IMHO.

We do have a friend with an industrial sewing machine who does sail repairs & charges for it. We consider her a friend, but somehow slightly separate from "normal" cruisers. Our son used to repair people's computers for $10/hr since his mean old dad refused to give him any pocket $$, & folks seemed to accept that, but he was a teen.
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Old 27-02-2012, 06:40   #27
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Re: Family world cruise

That's good to hear Jon - if only the rest of the world operated along similar lines!

I do a fair amount of my post-United Nations work online (copy editing/resume writing, etc.) so I'm sure I can continue to top up the sailing budget through that means, depending upon Internet connection.
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Old 27-02-2012, 07:40   #28
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Re: Family world cruise

Just my two cents, and just something else to consider. The OP states that you are liquidating everything...correct? Then there are several posts on the taxes one would have to pay to bring a boat back to EU. I am not seeing the connection. It appears to me that you and your family are leaving open, even ensuring, the option of not returning. I also see it that if you did return, it would probably be because the kids didn't enjoy it. So then that leads me to believe that you would probably sell the boat..move back to the UK. Well, the kids will grow and move on with their life and you and the Mrs. will probably still enjoy sailing and get a smaller boat to take on little trips here and there. But all of this is 'what ifs' that will sure stand in your way if you focus to hard on them. Bottom line, you bought the boat because someone else sold it.....that history will surely repeat itself...if you so choose for it too.

You and your wife are drawn to this dream for a reason. Follow the dream...see where it takes you! You just might not come back.......
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Old 27-02-2012, 08:38   #29
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Re: Family world cruise

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Originally Posted by dominiccc View Post
That's good to hear Jon - if only the rest of the world operated along similar lines! I do a fair amount of my post-United Nations work online (copy editing/resume writing, etc.) so I'm sure I can continue to top up the sailing budget through that means, depending upon Internet connection.
It would be wonderful indeed if the rest of the world worked together the way cruisers do. It's one reason we're out here.

Your writing work should be a great way to supplement the cruising kitty. Also, we try to go home every year or 2, to reconnect with friends & family - & maybe pick up some contract work (I'm a CS & EE). This life is fun, but so is our life back home, & living one for a while makes us appreciate the other that much more. The kids will especially appreciate this.

Internet on board is the subject of MANY threads on CF. We bought ourselves a 3G (or whatever G they're up to now) modem - about the size of your finger with a USB connector, $30-50. Buy it a SIM, top it up, convert the time to data(!), & you've got internet right to the boat, anytime you're in range of a cell tower. We usually pay ~$1/day, depending (see article here). The main problem is having to change SIMs in each new country, but they're cheap. Our internet-addicted son would have killed for this 10 years ago! Speeds & service vary but it's usually OK. If you have multiple computers that all want access, get a Router that will take the modem as an up-link (~$50), or maybe set your smart-phone up as a WiFi hub.
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Old 28-02-2012, 05:42   #30
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Re: Family world cruise

That does sound like the way to go Jon - will check your link re internet access.

We have spent many years abroad and, you're right, absence (from home) does make the heart grow fonder. That said, we told the kids what we are intending to do this morning and they couldn't wipe the grins off their faces all the way to school.....
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