Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-06-2017, 14:09   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Spain
Boat: 1913 Gaff Cutter yacht 28'
Posts: 36
Images: 4
Re: Engineless anyone?

but what I see on the horizon is a breeze coming. Where is this?
__________________

__________________
Sauntress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 14:16   #47
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hampton Roads
Boat: 1974 Bristol 27
Posts: 3,402
Re: Engineless anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauntress View Post
but what I see on the horizon is a breeze coming. Where is this?
Chesapeake Bay maybe 10 miles off Virginia Beach to the north.

And yes, you see some ripple on the water which I thought were going to be nice breezes also but turned out to be nothing but 2-4 knots and very patchy.

The current is strong here so I was using that and the small engine to cross with ...................it ended up being the same both ways unlike 2 weeks ago

And, btw I think this is the best picture of your boat (it tells of an era of long ago) but I haven't found it online.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC02068.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	419.2 KB
ID:	149738   Click image for larger version

Name:	ferrol (82).jpg
Views:	34
Size:	428.0 KB
ID:	149739  

__________________

__________________
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 14:48   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Martinique
Boat: One of a kind cat, 12 meters
Posts: 10
Re: Engineless anyone?

Hi everybody,
First, I'm French, so forgive my accent...
I own a sort of catamaran, made out of a Wharram, but glued all together, if you see what I mean. Rater high structure, 40 foot, 6 tons and a small 9.9 hp 4stroke yamaha engine. Well, it's a bit short but that's all I could afford. I need to arrive in a mooring, harbour or whetever place I want to anchor at something like 3 knots if I want the boat to obey. I had a big genoa but the first time I wanted to tackle, it stayed blocked by the staysail and would not pass. A great moment of lonelyness as we say in French. I have to fix that. The only point that I can't fix is the fact that she needs 70 meters at list, to make a full turn, so better anticipate and drop the anchor behind everybody. I had to take the boat two months ago to the travelift here in Martinica, and coming into that crowded place was a real (odysea). So I consider now that I am engineless and I will fix the boat according to that philosophy.
By the way, I an in Anse Caritan near le Marin, a white an yellow cat, you can't miss her.
__________________
jules ferry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 15:52   #49
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Bristol RI
Boat: Cape George 31
Posts: 620
Re: Engineless anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauntress View Post
Ben, if you are thinking of making a sculling oar/sweep you might like to look at the youtube stuff on the yuloh as a posible alternative. .
I have an experimantal sculling oar that works mostly well--I just need it to be stiffer and lighter. The problem with a yuloh seems to be that it needs to be monolithically heavy, and have quite a curve in it as well, which would make it hard to store and deploy. As it is, the sculling oar fits just so between other fittings, and I only just have room to swing it, so the whole yuloh lanyard thing would get in the way. The oar can be run out quickly, used for a couple dozen strokes and run in again very conveniently. I'd love to try out a yuloh on someone else's heavy boat sometime and see if it's worth the mods it would take to deploy on mine. So far the videos don't seem like it'd be any faster than my sculling oar.
__________________
Ben
zartmancruising.com
Benz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 17:27   #50
Registered User
 
Snowpetrel's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hobart
Boat: Alloy Peterson 40
Posts: 3,068
Re: Engineless anyone?

^^ My yuloh modification of the sculling oar showed definite promise, adding the downhaul lanyard line significantly reduced the effort and increased the thrust. But it did reduce the ability to quickly deploy it as you say. The curve is really just to get the auto blade rotation. Without the curve your wrists have to rotate the blade. You can sythisise a bend with a short cross peice at the end to lower the attachment point of the lanyard. Prehaps a setup with a quick release lanyard could work?

I didn't pursue it because having the little outboard made it less important. I still used the sweep a lot because the I sailed in and out of a lot of tight spaces.
__________________
My Ramblings
Snowpetrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2017, 21:50   #51
Moderator
 
Don C L's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 4,188
Images: 34
Re: Engineless anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benz View Post
I have an experimantal sculling oar that works mostly well--I just need it to be stiffer and lighter. The problem with a yuloh seems to be that it needs to be monolithically heavy, and have quite a curve in it as well, which would make it hard to store and deploy. As it is, the sculling oar fits just so between other fittings, and I only just have room to swing it, so the whole yuloh lanyard thing would get in the way. The oar can be run out quickly, used for a couple dozen strokes and run in again very conveniently. I'd love to try out a yuloh on someone else's heavy boat sometime and see if it's worth the mods it would take to deploy on mine. So far the videos don't seem like it'd be any faster than my sculling oar.
You might consider experimenting with rowing with one monster oar off one side only, like a gondola. You have that long keel to resist turning, you might be able to get enough forward motion to give the rudder some ability to steer and to keep you from turning in a large arc. I actually was fooling around with that with my boat, which does not have as long a keel, and I was able to get enough forward motion out of it to get some steerage.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
Don C L is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 04:38   #52
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Bristol RI
Boat: Cape George 31
Posts: 620
Re: Engineless anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
You might consider experimenting with rowing with one monster oar off one side only, like a gondola. You have that long keel to resist turning, you might be able to get enough forward motion to give the rudder some ability to steer and to keep you from turning in a large arc. I actually was fooling around with that with my boat, which does not have as long a keel, and I was able to get enough forward motion out of it to get some steerage.
I have considered that, since I could easily fabricate an oar socket that would drop into a winch, but then I'd be squeegeeing the whole family off the cockpit and cabin. We often daysail with other families, and this would really be awkward then. But it may be worth a try for when I'm alone, though I'd really like to perfect the old-fashioned sculling technique. I really only use it in flat water to make it back to the mooring when the breeze drops, or for an early morning (when it's calm) trip to the water or pumpout dock.
I used to scull my 9' dinghy a lot, until I realized that I can stand in the bows and kind of "pull scull" or "front scull" (I'm not sure which to call it). Instead of a socket, you hold the oar in both hands, feather it as you push the blade forward, then pull back. You can alternate sides to pull back to, or do a bunch on one side for steering. It's harder on the arms, but gets the dinghy going faster and with better control. But I don't see me pull-sculling from the bowsprit end of the big boat....
__________________
Ben
zartmancruising.com
Benz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 06:31   #53
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Spain
Boat: 1913 Gaff Cutter yacht 28'
Posts: 36
Images: 4
Re: Engineless anyone?

The photo of Sauntress posted by Thom 255 was taken in the inner basin of the Port of Ferrol. You will see there is no foresail,(that is to make life easier for my foredeck crew whilst up there) the jib is backed and out of shot, the skipper is shortening up on the aft warp to bring the bow through the wind and away. There is very little space here and proceedings are enlivened by sudden wind shifts and the antics of the local tripper boat which, sure as eggs is eggs, will put in an appearance at a critical moment. Nonetheless, since Sauntress behaves like an overgrown dinghy, it is quite manageable and infinitely preferable to a tow (where you instantly surrender control of the situation) or the sweep, which I use in the same way as Thom 255, viz to get you those last few hundred yards home to the mooring. Once out you have to tackle the narrows (the natural defences of the naval base that Drake never breached), meaning a sluicing tide and squalls form the hills. More entertainment if both happen to be against you. And yes the yuloh looks too cumbersome to my way of thinking.
__________________
Sauntress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 07:12   #54
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 8,358
Images: 14
Re: Engineless anyone?

Were I to enter my home port without the engine running I would be breaking the law set by the Queen's Harbour Master.

Additionally trying to navigate around a busy marina with wind and tides without an engine would be foolhardy to say the least an bound to cause damage to both mine and other yachts.

I use about 100 litres of diesel a year in the boat, the wife uses that a month to go to work in the car.
__________________
Moody 31 - April Lass
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 08:05   #55
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Spain
Boat: 1913 Gaff Cutter yacht 28'
Posts: 36
Images: 4
Re: Engineless anyone?

Yes Pete, that is perfectly true.

Equally here sailing into harbours has recently been prohibited. However the Ferrol junket is a festival of traditional sail once a year where we are expected to turn out and make a display, for which such rules are waived, or ar least a blind eye turned. Just to be clear the inner basin is a corner of the big naval base where, tripper boat aside, we interfere with no one.

As for "trying to navigate around a busy marina" I have never done any such thing. Nor would I try. What I do do is put her alongside the outer pontoon of a particular marina (here in Ares) where I am know and welcome. That naturally is done under sail, which is what, I suggest, this thread is about, doing things in a seamanlike manner.
__________________
Sauntress is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 17:16   #56
Registered User
 
Snowpetrel's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hobart
Boat: Alloy Peterson 40
Posts: 3,068
Re: Engineless anyone?

Is there a size limit on what boats can and can't sail into these harbour's.

I am disappointed by these kind of laws, but I guess with the boathandling skills of the average sailer these days...

I wonder what the exact wording of the rules are, ie is having any sail up prohibited? What about drifting in under bare poles? How do they define a sail, ie is a wing mast a sail? Maybe a tiny electric outboard whirring away with sail "assist"... What happens if your engine breaks down, are you allowed to raise sail in the harbour?
__________________
My Ramblings
Snowpetrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2017, 17:22   #57
Registered User
 
Snowpetrel's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Hobart
Boat: Alloy Peterson 40
Posts: 3,068
Re: Engineless anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don C L View Post
You might consider experimenting with rowing with one monster oar off one side only, like a gondola. You have that long keel to resist turning, you might be able to get enough forward motion to give the rudder some ability to steer and to keep you from turning in a large arc. I actually was fooling around with that with my boat, which does not have as long a keel, and I was able to get enough forward motion out of it to get some steerage.
I used to do this for longer distances. I would lash the staunchion aft to brace it and lash the sweep to the staunchion at the best height. I rowed pushing forward. It worked ok, less effort than sculling, but more than the yuhloh. I needed a little bit of rudder to go straight, and had to start off about 40 degrees off course as she would turn until I got enough way on for the rudder to work. Probably about a knot and a half or so of boatspeed. It used different muscle groups to sculling or towing with the dinghy, so I could switch between them when I started to get sore.
__________________
My Ramblings
Snowpetrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2017, 00:06   #58
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,636
Re: Engineless anyone?

An engineless square-rigger still in operation:

Tres Hombres | Fairtransport.eu

I think they mostly use tugs in harbor, however.
__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2017, 00:45   #59
Registered User
 
Astrid's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern British Columbia, part of the time in Prince Rupert and part of the time on Moresby Island.
Boat: 50-ft steel Ketch
Posts: 1,885
Send a message via MSN to Astrid Send a message via Yahoo to Astrid
Re: Engineless anyone?

Very often in a vessel of that sort, they might actually not tie up at a dock at all, but anchor out in the harbour and transfer cargo to land via lighters going to and from shore. If they did dock, it was a matter of getting close enough to the dock for them to transfer a line and then warp up to the dock using the windlass. Getting out of the dock was just the opposite, warp towards the end of the dock and hope wind and tide would carry you out into the harbour. Failing that, you could use the kedge anchor to kedge your way out until you had enough wind to set sail and get underway. Nothing was easy in those days.
__________________
'Tis evening on the moorland free,The starlit wave is still: Home is the sailor from the sea, The hunter from the hill.
Astrid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-06-2017, 02:19   #60
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 3,493
Re: Engineless anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
An engineless square-rigger still in operation:

Tres Hombres | Fairtransport.eu

I think they mostly use tugs in harbor, however.
The Thames barge Cambria still plies the thames estuary engineless though with a cargo of people these days on charters. Beautiful sight short tacking up an east coast river.



__________________

__________________
conachair is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engine

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Going Engineless SPCarroll Seamanship & Boat Handling 28 15-06-2011 13:51
Electric Motor for Engineless 40' Ben M-P Engines and Propulsion Systems 27 18-04-2011 04:54
Backing Up in a Slip ( Engineless ) otherthan Seamanship & Boat Handling 1 01-02-2011 17:51
Atolls for Engineless Cruisers . . . pressuredrop Pacific & South China Sea 59 24-11-2010 20:02
Almost 'Engineless' - Need Opinions otherthan Monohull Sailboats 19 17-09-2010 05:15



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:21.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.