Electric Outboard Motor

[valhalla360]

If the 10kw torqueedo really matched the 20hp Honda (pick a brand), does anyone really think they wouldn't post graphs and figures using standard test methods comparing them head to head instead of using vague marketing terms?

[myocean]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If the 10kw torqueedo really matched the 20hp ...

Regarding LED light bulbs people just believe the specifications. This is because everybody can easily do his own test with the old- and the new technology.
Regarding outboards, there seem to be some non-belivers around - testing by your own is a bit complicated. Time will show how this develops.

[uncle stinkybob]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If the 10kw torqueedo really matched the 20hp Honda (pick a brand), does anyone really think they wouldn't post graphs and figures using standard test methods comparing them head to head instead of using vague marketing terms?

And for how long? and at what weight increase? and how much pollution produced in manufacturing? in disposal? and for many how much in $?
Yes fossil fuel will not last forever, however the S.D. oil fields bring's in 1.6 million barrels a year......N.D. fields are bringing that amount in every two days! and Texans produce's more than both a year. I will be a fossil and contribute to the cause long before I or my great great grand children run out. As far as the flat earther"s .......we realized long ago that fossil fuel is not polluting the earth anymore than all the pollution developed by the production of all the electronic crap and it's eventual "tossing out".
I've noticed that when company's start with the "compares to" as "good as" advertising it's wishful thinking or right out pure grade A bull crude!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by myocean

Regarding LED light bulbs people just believe the specifications. This is because everybody can easily do his own test with the old- and the new technology.
Regarding outboards, there seem to be some non-belivers around - testing by your own is a bit complicated. Time will show how this develops.

If you ask the LED bulb manufacturers, they will happily provide the test results and as you say it's easy to conduct an objective test. (been thru this 10yrs ago when I was responsible for converting traffic signals statewide from incandescent to LED)

It's not a question of faith and shouting down the non-believers. If the performance was really that much better, Torqueedo would trumpet it and post the figures. Conventional outboard manufacturers would be unable to say anything about it because Torqueedo would have the facts. They use cutesy marketing terms and don't provide direct head to head comparison under controlled conditions because an unbiased legitimate test would show that there is nothing magical about electric HP.

[Stumble]

Let's see...

Outboards by law are rated at the prop so a 20hp outboard must produce 20hp +/- 10% at the prop. This is tested by the EPA since the hp rating controls the emissions standards.

Who knows where the electric outboards are tested, they came up with their own system to begin with, and to my knowledge aren't independently verified. But let's assume that they are also tested at the prop.

So on one hand we have 20hp (14.9kw) and the other engine is putting out 10kw... I don't care how you spin it 14.9=\= 10. Argue prop size all you want, I can absolutely put a larger prop on the 14.9 outboard as well, or switch to the high thrust version.

Electric outboard have their place, but the dishonesty of claiming that a 10kw engine is just as powerful as a 14.9kw engine is just amazing. What the electric outboard manufacturers mean is that if you give up a safety reserve of power they can do the same thing, while true, is just stupid. It's like arguing that a golf cart and a Bugatti Veyron are really the same thing as long as you stay on roads with a top speed of 20mph.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Electric Ray

Hi My Ocean

Do you know of any manufacturer that is actually shipping a 50v high power outboard in the range of 20hp? so far all I seem to come across are vapor ware with no real customers willing to talk about them and flat earthers who think diesel will last for ever.

To all those flat earthers, keep sailing to horizon.

Mark

mark diesel will last for as long as we grow oil producing crops to convert to bio diesel. Heck the diesel engine was originally designed to run on pure peanut oil. And the ford model A was originally fueled by ethanol not gasoline.

[myocean]

Well, guys, I conclude that it is either all a lie, because this company does not want to build up a sustainable long term business,
or you have just not read what is explained in the section "Comparing the Power of Electric and Petrol Outboards: Torqeedo’s HP Equivalent"
at Performance & Efficiency - Torqeedo

[uncle stinkybob]

And we all know that there is absolute "Truth in Advertising" . If I'm looking for facts on product's, I never ask the guy that is gaining profit by the answer.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by myocean

Well, guys, I conclude that it is either all a lie, because this company does not want to build up a sustainable long term business,
or you have just not read what is explained in the section "Comparing the Power of Electric and Petrol Outboards: Torqeedo’s HP Equivalent"
at Performance & Efficiency - Torqeedo

This is about selling the green dream and people wanting to believe. It's really common in eco-business. There is a large section of the population who wants to believe so bad that they will accept substandard products in the name of being eco-friendly. From a business perspective, it makes a lot of sense in terms of profit to feed the beast.

They are very careful not to mention any specific competing manufacturers. They are very careful not to use industry standard tests head to head against specific gas powered engines. They are dancing around the facts. They can't post head to head results because the only way to win would be an outright lie.

If you do a little digging, they essentially have a workboat prop and put it up against a speed prop and then claim the engine has more propulsive HP.

Put their 20hp "equivalent" engine against a "big foot" style 20hp gas with a workboat prop and I can pretty much guarantee the results will be different. I know we switched from a 40hp to a 25hp but went with a large low pitched work prop and we gained a lot of low end thrust around the docks. Top end is lower but it's less HP.

[Stumble]

Myocean,

Here is my would cost almost nothing to do a real head to head comparison. Frankly in a place like South Florida you could probably do it for free, you just need to find two identacle ribs and an outboard that closely matches the electric range. Then go take both boats out for an hour and compare them side by side.

The failure of the electric motor manufacturers to do this raises real issues in my head about their claims... That and 14.9 =\= 10 no matter how you slice it.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If you do a little digging, they essentially have a workboat prop and put it up against a speed prop and then claim the engine has more propulsive HP.

Yep, that's the crux of their whole argument. Nothing to do with electric v diesel motive technology.

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

...There is a large section of the population who wants to believe so bad that they will accept substandard products in the name of being eco-friendly...

This is showcased in virtually every thread supporting electric power for yachts and dinks. People want so badly to believe the BS that they try to rope in others so they don't feel alone in their fantastic beliefs.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Terra Nova

This is showcased in virtually every thread supporting electric power for yachts and dinks. People want so badly to believe the BS that they try to rope in others so they don't feel alone in their fantastic beliefs.

The sad thing is overselling undermines use cases that are viable and cost effective.

You are seeing it with electric cars trying to match gas cars for range. Rather than selling a commuter car with a 40-60mile range for families with more than 1 car fo $6-8k, they drive the cost up to nearly double what an equivalent gas powered car costs and the only way to sell them is huge govt handouts.

An electric trolling motor is a great cost effective option for your dingy if you just need to cover a couple hundred yards in a no wake harbor.

[Hamish_ct]

I have been considering replacing my gas outboard for a torquedo on my Wed night J24 racer. The lighter engine and ease of use are an advantage. Then I will only be running the engine in and out of the harbor for a max time of 40 mins so it makes sense. For my cruiser. There would have to be a massive leap in battery technology and design to even consider it. It just doesn't make economic or practical sense.

[myocean]

One more thing for people who hate tree huggers: