dreaming of buying boat for big family

[Smart555]

Originally Posted by Larry Florida

A sailboat the size you speak of seems quite large for a first sailboat. In any event will require many months or likely years of experience to safely sail from Florida to the Caribbean with your family.

Thank you for answering!
We’re not decided yet if we buy sailing boat or power boat. If we choose sailing boat actually we’re not going to cross the ocean at once! In our plans the first year we have to learn sailing and get some experience in Florida keys and the Bahamas

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Smart555

Thank you very much for your opinion! According our research we don’t have enough budget for buying the 40-45” catamaran in good condition. All of them cost starting from 350-400k.
And could you explain a little bit about our misconceptions of pros/cons ?
With your experience it would be useful for us!

A few items:
- The cost of bigger power boat engines balances against the cost of sails and rigging. In the end there isn't much difference.
- No one crosses oceans at 30kts, so a sailboat engine will get you there just as quickly. They all have engines in the modern world.
- Interior space is more about design priorities. Many sailboats are designed for live-aboard, so have lots of storage and living accommodations. There is a difference with visibility. Cats and power boats often have salons up with big windows making for a nice view when inside.


You aren't comparing apples to apples. You are comparing a 55-60' 30yr old power boat to a 10yr old 45' monohull to a ?????yr old 45' catamaran.
- Of course the monohull won't have as much room. It's drastically smaller.
- It's highly unlikely you will find a pristene 55-60' 30yr old power boat for $200k.
When you start looking at comparable ages, conditions and size (the cat is equivilent at 5-10' shorter length due to the greater beam), you will find there isn't a lot of cost difference between the options.

[Smart555]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

A few items:
- The cost of bigger power boat engines balances against the cost of sails and rigging. In the end there isn't much difference.

When you start looking at comparable ages, conditions and size (the cat is equivilent at 5-10' shorter length due to the greater beam), you will find there isn't a lot of cost difference between the options.

Thank you very much!

We thought that repair of engine for big boat and maintenance of sails and rigging is not comparable. If something wrong with big disel engine the repair cost is around 20k each . And repair of sails is about 10k.
But it seems that we were wrong.
Thanks again for your opinion. We will make research for 39-40” catamaran 10-15 years old. We just think that catamarans that old are not so heavy built and could cause more problems then monohul

[Juho]

Originally Posted by Smart555

Sailsboat
...
Cons
The space for 2 adults and 4 kids is too limited

You already mentioned that you need 3 cabins. Many monohull sailboats can meet that requirement. Catamarans can have even more cabins and more social space, but they may cost too much, and maybe you already prefer monohulls. Space requirements are very personal. It all depends on you and your family. Take a boat that meets your minimal needs but is not much bigger. You can upgrade later if needed. Maybe small cabins will do (i.e. no "master bedroom"), since that gives you more social space.

It’s dangerous for kids being on the deck

No major difference between different boats. Keep your kids and everybody tethered when at sea. Establish strict rules for working on the deck while underway.

It’s impossible to live aboard. We have to rent the apartment in this case and also pay for keeping the boat at the marina

Even small sailboats are good for living aboard, and for anchoring outside the marinas.

The operating the sailsboat is more difficult because we don’t have this experience.

No problem to learn for most people. If you are technically oriented and quick to learn, few weekends with a more experienced fried will do. Adding some formal training to that does no harm.

It’s less storage for things, food and everything you might need during long trip.

You will find sufficient space for the essentials, but you can't take all your worldly belongings with you. Less personal things, more food and other essentials, maybe some water sports gear.

Buy a boat that is ready to sail (or motor) and all essential things already installed. You don't want to get a "project boat". The condition of the boat is more important than its age. You can buy one of the best blue water brands, but many Beneteau and Jenneau models are also ok for crossing oceans.

[SailsWithFists]

Originally Posted by Smart555

We will make research for 39-40” catamaran 10-15 years old. We just think that catamarans that old are not so heavy built and could cause more problems then monohul

Generally speaking, older boats - power, sail, catamaran, whatever - are built heavier than newer versions of the same thing.

What is usually different are the layouts, use of space, hull design, and aesthetics.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Smart555

Thank you very much!

We thought that repair of engine for big boat and maintenance of sails and rigging is not comparable. If something wrong with big disel engine the repair cost is around 20k each . And repair of sails is about 10k.

If you need a brand new engine...maybe for a 60' boat with diesels.

Usually for big engines, you don't need full replacement. Even fairly bad problems can usually be handled with a rebuild. Not cheap but unless you get a heck of a deal or can replace them yourself, you don't want to be buying a boat that needs new engines.

With a sailboat, a full engine replacement will likely run north of $10-15k for the size engine you will find in a 60' sailboat and if you need to replace sails and rigging on a comparable 60' boat, it could easily run $15-20k. A big difference is it's not unusual for a 25-30yr old engine to keep chugging along with maintenance. Sails and rigging, depending on how hard they are used, usually need replacement at around 10yrs (more if you are performance oriented)

Also a single engine sailboat north of 60' will typically have a bow thruster which is another item that can fail.

In the long run I wouldn't count on a lot of difference in cost.

The driver should be how you plan to use the boat. While there are ocean crossing power boats, they are rare and expensive. If ocean crossing is a priority, plan on going sailboat. On a big sailboat, it's not unusual to have 1000-1500mile range under power.

Catamarans work out pretty similarly but it can be confusing as a straight length to length comparison is misleading.

[Smart555]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

Catamarans work out pretty similarly but it can be confusing as a straight length to length comparison is misleading.

Thank you!

Catamarans size 39-42” it’s ok for blue water cruising?
We know only major brands such as Leopard,Lagoone,FOUNTAINE PAJOT

What another brand would you suggest for blue water cruising in 39-47” size , 10-15 years old in 200-250k budget

[Mithril Bham]

I have done and loved both. Hate to assume but you seem like motor yacht people.
When a motor yacht has sunk, a sailboat will still be floating. Seaworthiness is critical in storms. That's an important Pro on the sail side.

Forget crossing the ocean in a motor yacht unless your budget is a couple of million or you are willing to risk extreme danger.

A good sailboat can do that. You can hire a delivery captain to go with you. You would never regret it but should not be taken lightly. Might want to fly the wife and kids ahead.

If you want to own and live on a boat you might consider extensive coastal cruising as a first step. Do the BVI for a couple of years on a 42 ft trawler that burns a few gallons an hour. You would have to learn about maintenance but that can be fun in it's own way. It would be a bit cramped for the kids but they would have the time of their lives. Invest in a good 12ft tender with a new 50hp 4 stroke motor. Spend 100G's and have the rest for expenses. They will always be more than you imagine when it comes to boats.

Good luck

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Smart555

Thank you for the reply.
We’ve already chartered 47 power cat Leopard for 3 days operated by myself. And also we got twice sail catamaran with captain becouse we don’t have sailing experience. He was teaching little us during the trip. Both catamarans was great! But the one with sails is more preferable ones we learn to operate it. Both of them are slow comparing our 32’’ sport cruiser but the sail one is more quite and less fuel consumption (that means cheaper during long traveling). There is plenty space for our big family as well, but unfortunately we don’t have enough budget to buy catamaran in this size not so old in good condition.

I’d be looking at a center cockpit, aft cabin and forward cabin, dual heads with convertible dinnette and settees. A quick search of the east coast shows Bristol’s, Freedom’s, Gulfstar’s, a Beauty LeComte, Morgan’s and of course some Hunters; although I assume that massive sugar scoop would reduce aft cabin space and famously increase noise. Most of the above are in the 120-150k range and appear to be well outfitted and ready to cruise, on a side note Tashing makes a beauty center cockpit, Taswell 43’ I believe, that would be up to the task bit might be a bit on the upper end of your price range. Not looking into the intracasies of each and their related demons,l of the above boats, I’d say you could pick one up for around 100k; re-rig (assuming it hasn’t been done anytime soon) still have quite the pot to draw from for electronics, sail upgrade engine tune up and Go! Most in that price range and length (45) will have a bow thruster and anything else that will go wrong shouldn’t sink you (check they hulls). Of the few I browsed most were shoal draft and should be quite capable of cruising the carribean and beyond. And remember if you and your family can’t get along on a 45’ boat, 55 won’t make a difference.

[Don C L]

The first thing that popped into my head when you said big family was a Hudson Force 50! That may be too big. Or the Hardin 45 maybe. Bluewaterboats.org has reviews of a bunch of boats that might be of interest to you in terms of monohulls.
The Hardin 45 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org
The Hudson Force 50 Sailboat : Bluewaterboats.org

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Mithril Bham

When a motor yacht has sunk, a sailboat will still be floating. .

Nice delusion you have there.
The ocean floor is littered with sailing boats

Originally Posted by Mithril Bham

Forget crossing the ocean in a motor yacht unless your budget is a couple of million or you are willing to risk extreme danger.

Again, no idea.
Plenty of people cross oceans on powered vessels that have nothing like the budget you claim is needed.

[Smart555]

Originally Posted by Mithril Bham

Hate to assume but you seem like motor yacht people.

Forget crossing the ocean in a motor yacht unless your budget is a couple of million or you are willing to risk extreme danger.

If you want to own and live on a boat you might consider extensive coastal cruising as a first step. Do the BVI for a couple of years on a 42 ft trawler that burns a few gallons an hour. luck

Thank you for your reply!
I just wonder why do you think “we’re motor yacht people “ ? Actually the situation is that we did have motor boat before and what for sailing experience we don’t have it at all. But we like to learn something new. And we like working out and spend time actively.

Also we understand that if we choose to buy motor yacht we have to postpone our dream of crossing the ocean for several years.

What for 42” trawler we’re afraid it will be not enough for our plans and style of traveling soon.
Of course we understand that we don’t buy the boat for the rest of our life but would like to have it for 3-5 years at least.
Just for example. Our first boat was open Yamaha 24” Usually this kind of boats used for going the nearest sandbar. We were traveling sometimes during 8-10 hours a day. It was the really nice boat. But we couldn’t oversleep aboard.
The second boat was bigger and more comfortable. It was 32” Regal which is kind of weekend power cruiser. We had a lot of problems with it mostly because was using it harder that it was supposed to be used. We don’t like to spend much time staying at one place. We prefer moving from place to place exploring new. And often we run in the rough weather by the ocean during 5-6 hours and lived aboard More 10 days was usuall for us. Because of the bad seaworthy, lack of space, small tank of water and fuel, expensive gas (weekend cost us around 500$) we sold this boat. And now looking something more suitable for our situation and needs.

[Simi 60]

KK42 doing an ocean crossing now, much of it single handed

https://dauntlessatsea.com/

[Smart555]

Originally Posted by rbk

A quick search of the east coast shows Bristol’s, Freedom’s, Gulfstar’s, a Beauty LeComte, Morgan’s and of course some Hunters; although I assume that massive sugar scoop would reduce aft cabin space and famously increase noise. Most of the above are in the 120-150k range and appear to be well outfitted and ready to cruise, on a side note Tashing makes a beauty center cockpit, Taswell 43’ I believe, that would be up to the task bit might be a bit on the upper end of your price range. And remember if you and your family can’t get along on a 45’ boat, 55 won’t make a difference.

Thank you!

We think that 45” sails boat it’s ok for summer vacation for our big family, but little small for trying living aboard long time!

What’s about 49” Jeanneau 2006-2008?
It’s close to our budget.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Smart555

What’s about 49” Jeanneau 2006-2008?
It’s close to our budget.

If living at a marina and spending most of your time ashore maybe
If actual cruising, needing to carry gear, spares, a REAL dinghy and several weeks of supplies, I reckon not.

There are 2 of us and a cat living on the 60fter in the avatar.
Have not been in a marina in 2 years and we do it comfortably and I wouldn't want to be doing it on anything less.