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Old 20-11-2012, 17:52   #196
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pirate Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

[QUOTE=Stray-Cat;1088830]I am so jealous Boatman
Your life is such an adventure

In looking at your correspondence (if I have interpreted it correctly) it looks like she did not fulfill the agreement where she basically said she was going to hook you up with her friends from work
What a letdown.....she should pay for that

It was drinking the leftover Rum that blew the deal mate...
Captain Jerry's Spiced Rum at that...
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Old 20-11-2012, 17:52   #197
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

I reckon the boat was wired so that the batteries were capable of accepting two sources of charging power at the same time. That would cook the best of them. Chances are there was no breaker to prevent this happening.
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Old 20-11-2012, 17:55   #198
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

At the price they were quoting I was thinking it had to be 12 yo Appleton's or something.
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Old 20-11-2012, 18:13   #199
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Well I've blown regulators/alternators in the past by running both... thats how I learned to avoid running both... $$$$
but then I've never owned a boat with an invertor...
It seems the cutout on the regulator was defective so a backfeed was being created and the guy who sorted the electrics in Panama reckoned the wiring system itself was not set up for maximum efficiency either... presumably hence the backfeed.
What puzzles me is if I'm so inefficient how come the new batteries were still good to go 13000 odd miles later... you'da thought they'd have died long before arrival...
But I'm prone to avoid mixing if its avoidable and it usually is...
I know as a boat ages and passes from owner to owner to owner, wiring gets changed around and creates all sorts of weird problems. I'll bet that has a little to do with it.
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Old 20-11-2012, 18:46   #200
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post

It was drinking the leftover Rum that blew the deal mate...
Captain Jerry's Spiced Rum at that...
Hey ,your in charge of the boat, your the Captain

Lots of reasons why you may have drank that bottle
I have a background in commercial fishing
I have learned all about vessel stability
Nothing more dangerous that partially filled tanks (I am thinking this could apply to the Rum bottle)
It's called the free surface effect,and it could effect the vessel stability
Better to err on the side of caution

(Tastier too)
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Old 20-11-2012, 19:11   #201
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

Quote:
Originally Posted by savoir View Post
I reckon the boat was wired so that the batteries were capable of accepting two sources of charging power at the same time. That would cook the best of them. Chances are there was no breaker to prevent this happening.
Not so sure about that, Mate.

If both sources are regulated, then when either or both saw voltages higher than their set point (say 14.6 or so if flooded batteries), then each of them would shut down. If the voltage is limited, you can't cram more current into a battery than it can accept gracefully, no matter how many sources.

Of course, the regulators might have been stuffed or mis-set...

But, lacking written instructions forbidding the action, I don't think the owners have ANY bitch coming.

And yes, wiring that has survived several DIY owners can have lots of landmines scattered around the circuits. IMO it is up to the owners to advise of any unusual requirements for operation. Lacking that, the delivery skipper can only fall back on normal procedures, and running the engine whilst attached to shore power falls withing that description.

Hang in there, Boatie!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 20-11-2012, 19:31   #202
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

Well Jim you are right but only if the boat was competently wired. I am assuming that it wasn't for then the events make sense. Take one example - if there was a regulator controlling the alternator current but not the shore power then, with both circuits open, more current than the system could safely handle would arrive at the battery.

Things might well get a little heated.
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Old 20-11-2012, 20:03   #203
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

Mines automatic.
when you connect to shore power, The generator will not put power into the system,
Its one or the other, it wont run both,
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Old 20-11-2012, 20:04   #204
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

Quote:
Originally Posted by savoir View Post
Well Jim you are right but only if the boat was competently wired. I am assuming that it wasn't for then the events make sense. Take one example - if there was a regulator controlling the alternator current but not the shore power then, with both circuits open, more current than the system could safely handle would arrive at the battery.

Things might well get a little heated.
Well, "shore power" isn't connected directly to the batteries, is it? Goes via a battery charger, and any battery charger in use would have voltage regulation. If it didn't then there would be overcharging even without the addition of engine alternator power. And if the charger is regulated, when the voltage reaches the set point, the charger shuts down whether or not there is an additional source of charging. The same is true for the alternator.

Again, at a given voltage the batteries can not be "forced" to accept extra power just because there are multiple sources. On our boat it is not uncommon to have (regulated) solar, wind and alternator sources simultaneously available. This does not lead to overcharging.

Would be nice if true... I could shorten up the charging time on my house bank at times!

Cheers,

Jim
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Old 20-11-2012, 22:01   #205
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

It worth remembering at this stage that it was the owner who was running the engine (or genset?) while connected to shore power; not Mr Boatman.

Regardless of whether this is (was) a problem or not, Boatman wasn't responsible.

It seems that the owner fouled up and when the resulting mess hit the fan later, conveniently blames the then on-board skipper. Bend over Mr Boatman
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Old 21-11-2012, 13:27   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wotname
It worth remembering at this stage that it was the owner who was running the engine (or genset?) while connected to shore power; not Mr Boatman.

Regardless of whether this is (was) a problem or not, Boatman wasn't responsible.

It seems that the owner fouled up and when the resulting mess hit the fan later, conveniently blames the then on-board skipper. Bend over Mr Boatman
I don't see how it was the owner's our boatman's fault. the only thing that could have caused that was a fault regulator or shore charger. Combining the two had nothing to do with it at all
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Old 21-11-2012, 15:38   #207
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

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Originally Posted by cwyckham View Post
I don't see how it was the owner's our boatman's fault. the only thing that could have caused that was a fault regulator or shore charger. Combining the two had nothing to do with it at all
OK some thread drift ahead
I have no idea exactly how Elle Bo was setup battery charging wise but I can see that if it was setup in the same way as I have seen some boats, then combining the two does cause problems.

If the genset output is 110 V AC and this is feed to a battery charger and the 110 V AC shore power is also feed to the same battery charger, then combing the two 110 V AC inputs together (and out of phase) is not going to be good. I understood this caused the regulator aspects of the battery charger to fail (going to over 16 volts) and thus when later running the genset to charge the batteries (and have general 110V AC available), the batteries were cooked. By this time, the owner was no longer on board.

Shouldn't done this way I hear some say - agreed, it shouldn't be but it does happen. Remember this same vessel had leaking inspection ports on the diesel tanks dumping many litres of diesel into the bilge; was carrying 3,000 litres of diesel and water above the waterline and had such bad engine room wiring as to cause a fire on board. So at this stage I am willing to believe Boatman and his German engineer friend when they diagnosed the reason for the battery charger regulator failing and thus massively overcharging the batteries.

Maybe it didn't happen this way but one thing I can be sure of - Boatman was not responsible for the failure yet the owner claims he was - why - well, go figure

Anyway, the good news is that Boaty is again under sail and on his way across Bass Strait and then down the east coast of Tassie.

Fair winds, pretty mermaids and God's speed.

EDIT: I have never been able to determine from all the posts on this thread (and the "change of plan" thread) if the engine in question that was started while connected to shore power was the main ship's engine or the genset engine. I believe it was the genset but happy to be corrected here.

I will have to wait for Boaty to come back on-line for the answer I guess
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Old 22-11-2012, 02:28   #208
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

Thanks, Wotname. That makes total sense! If in fact an AC genset was started while hooked to shore power, I can see this frying the charger. The engine has a DC output direct to the battery, so this couldn't have caused a failure if started while on shorepower.

All makes more sense now!
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Old 22-11-2012, 02:45   #209
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

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Thanks, Wotname. That makes total sense! If in fact an AC genset was started while hooked to shore power, I can see this frying the charger. The engine has a DC output direct to the battery, so this couldn't have caused a failure if started while on shorepower.

All makes more sense now!
I thought that the issue was fried batteries, not a fried charger???

Jim
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Old 22-11-2012, 04:49   #210
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Re: Don't Pay The Ferryman...

" first, we shoot the surveyor"--Shakespeare, King Phil, Act 1, Scene 4.
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