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Old 18-03-2014, 01:31   #76
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Re: Does Cruising mean we have to become Full On Seamen??

I have to agree with Sailorboy1 "sailing is easy", tons of people with very little skill do it everyday BUT sailing well is only easy for those folks that have been very well trained either by themselves or others or both and that my friends takes years.
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Old 18-03-2014, 03:02   #77
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Re: Does Cruising mean we have to become Full On Seamen??

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Maybe it really is quite easy, not luck at all? We are smart enough to work it out, the sea teaches us and that experience is nice to have, and useful, but not overly necessary in the vast majority of cases.

Sure the modern conveniences have made easier, and imho, much safer, but we seem to be setting the recommended bar higher and higher.



Tanya Albia is lauded for her achievements but couldn't sail when she set off, nor could she use a sextant, and Dad had to fly out and fix the engine.







Mark

I think in a vast majority of the cases the go now crowd will be right. However you could also run across a motorway and not get hit by cars but if 1000 people do it odds are one will get hit.

Even experienced sailors get caught out.

But really the question is not "should" one go but "could" one go - and I think most of us would agree that almost any eeidjit can sail around the world.

We just like to think that all our years of work, experience and learning make it safer for us, which in some cases does.
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Old 18-03-2014, 04:52   #78
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Re: Does Cruising mean we have to become Full On Seamen??

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But that's not "sailing", that's "fairweather cruising". Sailing includes that and much more.
The question was about cruising. And as far as that goes that goes sailing is easy. That doesn't mean someone with low experience can just go anywhere, but easy sailing locations cover a huge area of the planet. I guess there are a few people seeking extreme cruising, but fairweather cruising is the goal I bet of the vast majority of cruisers.

Maybe it is because my goal has been to be a cruiser, not a sailor.
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Old 18-03-2014, 09:15   #79
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Re: Does Cruising mean we have to become Full On Seamen??

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The question was about cruising. And as far as that goes that goes sailing is easy. That doesn't mean someone with low experience can just go anywhere, but easy sailing locations cover a huge area of the planet. I guess there are a few people seeking extreme cruising, but fairweather cruising is the goal I bet of the vast majority of cruisers.

Maybe it is because my goal has been to be a cruiser, not a sailor.
With my family that's what I keep it isolated to now as well. But I really do enjoy working on race boats as well. There's something cool about having a dozen well trained no-kidding-sailors onboard who really know what they're doing. You can push the boats so much harder and further with much less problems.

It's antithetical to the cruising mindset where everything is ultra-conservative, but there's some cross over that's helping me.

Before the idea of single handing an asymetrical spinnaker seemed stupid and dangerous, but from hoisting and dousing one on a race boat a few times over and over again you get better at it and all of a sudden it's less of a problem.

I'm not trying to argue anything really, rather I'm trying to say that for me it's helped to hang out with different (and better in several ways, frankly) sailors then myself. It's gotten more experience which makes "challenging" cruising a bit less challenging.
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Old 18-03-2014, 09:22   #80
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Re: Does Cruising mean we have to become Full On Seamen??

If you want to learn to sail, get on a race boat! No it won't teach you to cruise but it sure will teach you how to sail.
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Old 18-03-2014, 10:27   #81
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Re: Does Cruising mean we have to become Full On Seamen??

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As a philosophical question, does becoming a cruiser and sailing off into the sunset mean we have to become full-on seamen, like, of old?

How much do you think we have to be able to know all about anything?

Or is it a bit of knowledge and slip the lines?

What do you think on some scale of 1 to 10 do we need to know to be to safely circumnavigate (or do a long cruise)? Nothing? Everything?

It seems that by reading forums we need to know vast amounts.

Whats you experience, and for those not gone yet, whats your guess/thoughts?



Mark
PS Theres no subtext to the question.
We all start out knowing nothing about boats!

Then our public sailing philosophy is formed from early experiences on other boats with other skippers.
Good or bad, bold or cautious, we absorb their often highly opinionated statements about seamanship.

After a while most of us realize that while we love the water, we have developed a healthy ‘respect’ (some say fear) of the Sea.

…This then allows an element of superstition to become part of the sailor’s development and experience.

Some offset that superstition by building their sailor’s house full of book read knowledge but never really open that window of experience. They suffer the doubts of having missed something.

Others challenge the superstition.
It manifest itself via racing bravado, where technical excellence of a combative nature, testosterones the seaman to wet dream of battling nature and his sailing peers in a coming of age party of Rolex icons and copious amounts of alcohol. They are often high maintenance crew mates

We all list, we trim, we ballast and we plan our sailing passage not only to our nature, but to the superstitious expectations of onlookers and the other crew.

In the end it is our own superstitious perception of “how it should be”
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Old 20-03-2014, 06:15   #82
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Re: Does Cruising mean we have to become Full On Seamen??

Just came across this thread, couldn't resist.

Since we've sorted out "the scurvy" problem, the whole thing has become so much easier...
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Old 20-03-2014, 09:07   #83
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pirate Re: Does Cruising mean we have to become Full On Seamen??

Clearly, vast numbers of cruisers are not seamen at all. My buddy the circumnavigator mentioned recently that he wasn't much good at sail trim. This surprised me, but it probably shouldn't have considering how many boats we see flying the unfurled genny and the iron one together. That's not sailing imo, tho it may be cruising.

Reference was made to rush hour traffic in anchorages towards the end of the day. We all know why: everything changes after dark. Oh yeah, there be dragons.
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Old 20-03-2014, 09:53   #84
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Re: Does Cruising mean we have to become Full On Seamen??

I'm in the process of learning to sail. At present, I'm reading books on the subject with plans of taking ASA classes in December. It has occurred to me that by reading these books, I will have most of the knowledge of "how to sail." However, I will not know how to sail until I actually set foot on a vessel and sail. I will not know how to sail well until I have many years under my belt. Even then, I could go through my entire sailing life and not see all possible circumstances. The day I come up on an circumstance I have not experienced, I may panic. The more overall experience I have, the less likely I am to panic. In my opinion you do not need to be a seaman to sail but sailing will certainly make you a seaman of your experience.
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Old 20-03-2014, 10:32   #85
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pirate Re: Does Cruising mean we have to become Full On Seamen??

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I'm in the process of learning to sail. At present, I'm reading books on the subject with plans of taking ASA classes in December. It has occurred to me that by reading these books, I will have most of the knowledge of "how to sail." However, I will not know how to sail until I actually set foot on a vessel and sail. I will not know how to sail well until I have many years under my belt. Even then, I could go through my entire sailing life and not see all possible circumstances. The day I come up on an circumstance I have not experienced, I may panic. The more overall experience I have, the less likely I am to panic. In my opinion you do not need to be a seaman to sail but sailing will certainly make you a seaman of your experience.
The trouble with panic is that it doesn't help anything.

Try it. Go ahead and panic, scream and shout! Plead with the gods all you want ... after awhile ya get yer ass in gear. Panic is a response to get out of your system early on.
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Old 29-03-2014, 16:16   #86
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Re: Does Cruising mean we have to become Full On Seamen??

Somewhat related... to get a professional ticket, mariners can get a US Coast Guard "ticket" with scores substantially below 100%, especially on the test units other than rules of the road/nav... and there can as well be very minimal verification of experience. Even professional sailors aren't expected to know everything.
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