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Old 09-07-2015, 00:44   #61
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Fenders are one's first line of defense.





Having easy access to deck near dock level helps a lot also.
Lovely lines.

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Old 09-07-2015, 00:55   #62
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Fenders are one's first line of defense.





Having easy access to deck near dock level helps a lot also.

Nice boat. I thought it was a Schucker at first.


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Old 09-07-2015, 01:06   #63
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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Originally Posted by Svalan View Post
To Stu Jackson,
I was under the impression that Cruisers Forum was an international forum for sharing knowledge about sailing at large, not just a North American one. I must be wrong, maybe. It's just that people should be treated friendly not like retards offering their help. I've personally been a trauma-orthopaedic surgeon for 27 years and have on numerous occasions offered my help at road accidents, I've never experienced someone denying that help. I've been sailing for 38 years and have often taken a bow line when I could see that the control of the vessel was lost under docking. I dont think I remember a single occasion when that help was not welcome and appreciated. I understand that in USA (I've been working at a level 1 trauma center in Portland) the last thing you want to do is to assist anybody even if they're in very dire straits. Even if you save their lives, they'll probably just sue you for malpractise on discharge from hospital. But that is judicial practise on a perverted scale - - not The Human Bond, you know. Best.
I not understanding the example. Myself as a Dr offering help at a road accident is not the same as Joe Smith shoemaker offering help. People do not refuse help in an emergency from an announced specialist in trauma.

Its completely different docking a boat. Firstly, Im not American although I have lived and worked in the States for 14 years. I no longer live and work in the States. I am Europe based.

You wrote: "I've been sailing for 38 years and have often taken a bow line when I could see that the control of the vessel was lost under docking."

Small problem with that is that I have no idea who you are and that you have 38 years of experience. Secondly, in making, correctly or incorrectly, the assumption that "control was lost" you will start correcting the procedure that the boat crew are working to and may or may not be destroying a specialist docking technique.

There is an element of wariness in everyone here when it comes to docking in inclement weather. Most of it centred around doing the right thing at the right time. On the vessels I have had with bow thrusters and dual engines, after hours and hours of practice, I could dock the 40 footer like there was no wind or tide whatsover affecting it and the last thing I want is someone tugging on the lines. I will gladly accept help to tie off WHEN the vessel is alongside and needs holding, but not before. I will not throw lines in rough weather until I am in the right position to people I do not know.

This has been slightly tongue in cheek regarding waving off help or what to do to discourage help and sadly some have not seen it.

I love bow thrusters.
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Old 09-07-2015, 05:54   #64
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

By the way, it is reap what you sow (as in seeds) and not what you sew--which could be a damaged hand or finger from bad docking. Back to my weak tea......
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Old 09-07-2015, 11:37   #65
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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Originally Posted by Paul Annapolis View Post
By the way, it is reap what you sow (as in seeds) and not what you sew--which could be a damaged hand or finger from bad docking. Back to my weak tea......

My diction demon was telling telling me that I used the wrong spelling while I struggled to keep up with my errant train of thought.

Or it could have been the gin


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Old 20-09-2015, 01:37   #66
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

No wind, 180 turn into slip, crew took pre adjusted spring line from dock and dropped it on midship cleat, crew handed bow line to enthusiastic helper, anchor demolishes fire hose stand pipe. Sigh.

Took awhile for anger to subside. Even longer to admit that fault was my own. I neglected bow line discussion prior to approach. Not the first time. Not even the second. No excuse.

No blame for dock help.

Will have long discussion with crew tomorrow.




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Old 20-09-2015, 06:19   #67
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

As a single hander I believe you should be able to dock with no dockside help. The best approach on MY boat is to use my mid ship cleat and tie IT off first to stop the boat making way. The bow and stern lines are fair and ready and hanging over the live lines at mid ship - the fat part of the boat. I will usually reverse the engine with and out it into neutral to slow or stop the boat and then jump off at midship with the midship line which I secure to the closest cleat. The docking objective is to get the boat close to or next to the cleat or piling. Then from the dock I can easily reach both the stern and bow lines and tie them off. I don't stay dockside very long so I rarely set springs... but the excess of bow and stern lines can be used as springs.

Leaving I reverse the process... start the engine... get off the boat.. untie the bow and stewrn lines and hang them over the life lines at midship... I light pull the stern in or push the bow out before untying the mid ship line and taking the helm.

With wind and current this is more challenging obviously. I can usually choose conditions to come along side.

Most offers for help are from people who are clueless and that is dangerous. Seasoned sailors understand and can be helpful. But how do you know? Deck shoes? hahahaha
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Old 20-09-2015, 06:28   #68
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandero View Post
As a single hander I believe you should be able to dock with no dockside help. The best approach on MY boat is to use my mid ship cleat and tie IT off first to stop the boat making way. The bow and stern lines are fair and ready and hanging over the live lines at mid ship - the fat part of the boat. I will usually reverse the engine with and out it into neutral to slow or stop the boat and then jump off at midship with the midship line which I secure to the closest cleat. The docking objective is to get the boat close to or next to the cleat or piling. Then from the dock I can easily reach both the stern and bow lines and tie them off. I don't stay dockside very long so I rarely set springs... but the excess of bow and stern lines can be used as springs.

Leaving I reverse the process... start the engine... get off the boat.. untie the bow and stewrn lines and hang them over the life lines at midship... I light pull the stern in or push the bow out before untying the mid ship line and taking the helm.

With wind and current this is more challenging obviously. I can usually choose conditions to come along side.

Most offers for help are from people who are clueless and that is dangerous. Seasoned sailors understand and can be helpful. But how do you know? Deck shoes? hahahaha
When single-handing, I never jump off my boat until she is securely tied up . I loop a line around a cleat at midships and tie it back onto my own cleat. Power against it to stabilize the boat. Then I do the same fore and aft. Only then do I get off the boat and tie on spring lines.

Bit of a challenge at a low dock from my freeboard (lasso anyone?), but generally works fine as long as there are normal horned cleats, or bollards. But what do you do with the rings favored in many countries? Well, there are two ways -- either use a special boathook which will clip on to it, or ask someone to help you get it on. If mooring bows-to, you simply can't do it without help, but interestingly, in countries with rings instead of cleats, people are highly alert when someone comes in and are always standing by to help. I don't care whether the person is "experienced" or not -- all they have to do is get the line through the ring and back to me and all is well.
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Old 20-09-2015, 06:43   #69
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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Originally Posted by bigbrownpilot View Post
We keep our Hunter 380 at a marina that is mostly a home for cruisers. They seem to come in, tie up, and stay there for six months. While we aspire to the cruising lifestyle, right now about the best we can do are take day trips offshore and out into the sound. But when we do, people are like 'Oh, my God-- you're leaving the dock and coming back after hours? How will you get back in?"

As primarily lake sailors, we struggled for a while to figure out how to deal with current at the dock, especially when the tide is coming in. We usually have a following current that hits the starboard stern quarter, so we're idled down, coming in hot, bumping reverse gear, and with limited steerage because there's not so much prop wash helping the rudder. What we figured out is that my wife (or whoever else is crewing with us) needs to get a line from the starboard mid cleat on the boat to the aft cleat on the dock, then hand it back to me at the helm so I can keep the stern from swinging wide and hitting the boat on the port side. Then, I keep motoring forward while holding the line and paying it out as we move ahead until we're right where she wants the boat and then start attaching spring lines, and bow and stern lines. Works like a champ, as long as everyone has the picture. The problem comes in when you have neighbors on the dock who want to help and they don't know the plan. They are trying, and we really appreciate it, but invariable they are handing us the wrong lines at the wrong places and wrong times. I've had this happen enough times where I'm literally wanting to tell them not to help.

Am I being a jackass, or is there a better way to handle this? What are some of your experiences out there? We're still new at the big boat in a marina that gets tide and current, so I don't want to turn down help, but we're trying to perfect our system and sometimes th help, well, isn't helpful.

Thoughts?
Dave
My first berth here (first year and a half of ownership of this boat) was like that. It was a marina finger berth in the Hamble River, which runs hard on the ebb. My berth was facing downstream, so if I tried to come in during the ebb tide, I could be negotiating with a 2 or 3 knot current.

It took me a while (and a certain amount of damage) to figure out that it is simply not possible to safely get into such a berth on the ebb. The problem is that there is no way to have any steerage -- once you are stopped dead in the water with no steerage, you're still moving 2 or 3 knots over ground and thus right into the pontoon. So by the time you are close enough to have a line on it's far too late to have control. It's a miracle I didn't do more damage than I did (smashed nav light and some scratches was about the worst of it). My last few attempts before realizing I just had to time my entries, I would get going in astern a couple of boat lengths from the pontoon and try to slew around with bow thruster and rudder to keep from smashing into either the pontoon on one side, or my neighbor on the other. It sort of worked, but mostly luck kept me from wreaking chaos. With a strong side wind, as is common up here, this maneuver became even more "interesting" -- hah! Twas a happy day when I realized that I just have to wait for the tide to turn.

One of many things about my present berth (mid river non-walk ashore) is that I can approach it from either side, so I don't care which way the tide is running. Even still, prefer to do it at slack tide high water.
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Old 20-09-2015, 10:39   #70
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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Originally Posted by rassabossa View Post

Instead of coming in hot, have you considered doing a standing turn and face the current? Might scare the neighbors less but hey, to each their own.
I've made the window seats at a waterfront restaurant run for their lives before.
That was my first thought upon reading the OP's post.
I've done the waterfront restaurant thing as well.
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Old 20-09-2015, 11:07   #71
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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Originally Posted by bigbrownpilot View Post
We keep our Hunter 380 at a marina that is mostly a home for cruisers. They seem to come in, tie up, and stay there for six months. While we aspire to the cruising lifestyle, right now about the best we can do are take day trips offshore and out into the sound. But when we do, people are like 'Oh, my God-- you're leaving the dock and coming back after hours? How will you get back in?"

As primarily lake sailors, we struggled for a while to figure out how to deal with current at the dock, especially when the tide is coming in. We usually have a following current that hits the starboard stern quarter, so we're idled down, coming in hot, bumping reverse gear, and with limited steerage because there's not so much prop wash helping the rudder. What we figured out is that my wife (or whoever else is crewing with us) needs to get a line from the starboard mid cleat on the boat to the aft cleat on the dock, then hand it back to me at the helm so I can keep the stern from swinging wide and hitting the boat on the port side. Then, I keep motoring forward while holding the line and paying it out as we move ahead until we're right where she wants the boat and then start attaching spring lines, and bow and stern lines. Works like a champ, as long as everyone has the picture. The problem comes in when you have neighbors on the dock who want to help and they don't know the plan. They are trying, and we really appreciate it, but invariable they are handing us the wrong lines at the wrong places and wrong times. I've had this happen enough times where I'm literally wanting to tell them not to help.

Am I being a jackass, or is there a better way to handle this? What are some of your experiences out there? We're still new at the big boat in a marina that gets tide and current, so I don't want to turn down help, but we're trying to perfect our system and sometimes th help, well, isn't helpful.

Thoughts?
Dave
I come in single handed in a current and narrow slip single handed 80% of the time and I always graciously accept the help no matter how unskilled, if they can get a line on to a cleat for me, any cleat, I can work with it and adjust my lines afterwards. If there is no one there to help, I have to leave my wheel and throttle, climb out of my centre cockpit, lasso a cleat, then climb back into my centre cockpit holding the bitter end of the line and start driving again.

My boat isn't equipped with a remote control, so the only place I can control the boat from is my helm station, which I don't like leaving when maneuvering, even if its only as far as my midship fairlead.
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Old 20-09-2015, 19:48   #72
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

lassoing a cleat is not possible in many locations and I have to step off the boat. I do it with the line in hand so I can tie it off immediately and I am usually dead in the water when I do it. My knees can take much "jumping" anyway. And leaving the cockpit to tie off FROM on the boat is fine if it is possible.

30 years and it works for me. If conditions don't let me... I don't dock... not worth it and it can wait.
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Old 21-09-2015, 03:44   #73
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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lassoing a cleat is not possible in many locations and I have to step off the boat. I do it with the line in hand so I can tie it off immediately and I am usually dead in the water when I do it. My knees can take much "jumping" anyway. And leaving the cockpit to tie off FROM on the boat is fine if it is possible.

30 years and it works for me. If conditions don't let me... I don't dock... not worth it and it can wait.
"If conditions don't let me... I don't dock... not worth it and it can wait." Amen to that. Applies to a lot of sailing situations.

I don't get off my boat before she's tied up simply because I can't hold her with my own bodily force -- she weighs about 25 tons.

So if I can't lasso the cleat and if there's no one around to help, I bugger off and drop the hook somewhere or just keep sailing.
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Old 21-09-2015, 03:57   #74
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Re: Docking Help (or not)

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"If conditions don't let me... I don't dock... not worth it and it can wait." Amen to that. Applies to a lot of sailing situations.

I don't get off my boat before she's tied up simply because I can't hold her with my own bodily force -- she weighs about 25 tons.

So if I can't lasso the cleat and if there's no one around to help, I bugger off and drop the hook somewhere or just keep sailing.
Shiva can be manhandled she's 16K in fair conditions... so it's a different story.. and it's the story I relate to.
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