Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-07-2015, 09:28   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: St Petersburg, FL
Boat: Kanter Yachts Steel Spray 38
Posts: 57
Re: Docking Help (or not)

I usually just say to people that we would rather scrape some paint than have someone hurt by helping, and ask them to just stand by when we come into the dock, "just in case." That usually works.

I had the opposite happen a couple of weeks ago. I went to help a boat that is opposite us on the dock; about a 40' racer/cruiser. The gentleman and his significant other were coming in way too fast; I kept waving and telling him to back it down, but he kept coming. I knew there was no way to stop the boat, or even slow it down, and if I put my hands on his bow pulpit, there was a chance that they would have been mangled between the dock box and pulpit. So, after he smashed into the dock with the bow pulpit and mangled his bowlight, he yelled at me for not stopping the boat, as though it was my fault. Is that reasonable? We are all responsible for our own docking, in my view.
__________________

__________________
TKDSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 09:28   #17
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,140
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Docking Help (or not)

Docking is a pain.

Once I found this could be done, it solved a lot of problems.....

__________________

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 09:39   #18
Registered User
 
ralter's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Boat: Nautor 50 Motorsailer
Posts: 4
Re: Docking Help (or not)

I often try to get the first line from, say, the stbd mid cleat onboard to any dockside cleat or piling, temporarily, but fairly tight. That way I can minimize the slack in most situations for the boat to swing too widely within the next minute or so to do any damage. Then I (alone, or with wife's help) can lay out the next two lines to secure the boat where I really want it, and I slack that tight midship line to allow us to move the boat to where we really want it. Depending on where the dockside cleats are, that may involve moving the boat a half-length or so, or maybe less. By that time the initial midship line may become a spring line, or may become redundant, but the boat is where I want it and not moving anywhere while I complete setting the remaining lines, without any terrible rush.
__________________
ralter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 10:26   #19
Senior Cruiser
 
SilentOption's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: East Coast of America and Keys
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 415
Re: Docking Help (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by perchance View Post
In adverse conditions a spring line is your best friend.
I am rather fond of many large round soft fenders..

If you do drift into someones yacht having a nice cushion can save the issue from escalating into a shouting match.

That last comment about turning the boat around is the best advice here. If possible of course. Pointy end into the strongest influence is always best..Whether its wind or tide.
__________________
SilentOption is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 10:50   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Saint Lucie county FLa
Boat: 35' Pearson sloop
Posts: 384
Re: Docking Help (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKDSailor View Post
I usually just say to people that we would rather scrape some paint than have someone hurt by helping, and ask them to just stand by when we come into the dock, "just in case." That usually works.

I had the opposite happen a couple of weeks ago. I went to help a boat that is opposite us on the dock; about a 40' racer/cruiser. The gentleman and his significant other were coming in way too fast; I kept waving and telling him to back it down, but he kept coming. I knew there was no way to stop the boat, or even slow it down, and if I put my hands on his bow pulpit, there was a chance that they would have been mangled between the dock box and pulpit. So, after he smashed into the dock with the bow pulpit and mangled his bowlight, he yelled at me for not stopping the boat, as though it was my fault. Is that reasonable? We are all responsible for our own docking, in my view.

NO! It is totally unreasonable, this operator, (I refuse to call him any kind of sailor let alone captain), is an idiot! He obviously needs to go back to irritating his wife and family.
__________________
lesterbutch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 11:05   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 38
Posts: 563
Re: Docking Help (or not)

I do it a bit differently, as I'm often coming in single handed on a beamy 38 footer.

Firstly, I run the bow line outside the stanchions and shrouds to the aft helm station laying just inside the toe rail. It's long enough to reach me at the aft helm station. Next I've got my long trusty boathook set on the gunnel next to me.

I always come in on my helm side (port) when I'm single handing, so that may be bow first or stern first depending on conditions.

I come in as close to 2 knots as the current will allow. Sometimes I've got up to a knot of tidal flow that I'm compensating for either way.

My goal when coming side-to a dock is to get me, the helmsman, as close to a cleat as possible at the stern. My powering helm station is on the port side, so I bring that right up to a cleat. If I've mis-judged and gotten too far away, I'll back out completely and come back in, sometimes going as far as backing out all the way down the fairway until I can get momentum back up properly in the right direction. This is critical--if you miss and are too close or far from the dock, don't try to fix it in the limited slip or dock area around other boats because the current or wind will rotate you before you can regain enough momentum for your rudders to bite. Just back out as far as necessary to regain control and correct your momentum and try again. I've found it looks a lot more professional to not hit anyone no matter how much maneuvering you have to do.

From the helm, I stop all forward momentum and grab the cleat on the dock with the boat hook and pull the stern to the dock. As soon as I'm certain I've got the cleat, from the helm station I loop the stern dock-line with my dominant hand as I hold the cleat with the boat hook. Usually get it looped on the first or 2nd try, but it does take practice which you can do while you're cleated off at the marina. If any thing goes wrong here, such as the current pulls harder that you can hold or you cannot get the dockline looped before the bow drifts off, you're still at the helm so you can back out and come in again. Just repeat as necessary.

Once I've got the dockline firmly around the cleat and the stern snugged to the dock, I'll put the boathook down and check the bow. If it's drifting off, I can power forward slightly against the looped stern line to bring it back to the dock. Since I'm in forward, there's no prop-walk to worry about. Anything goes wrong, I'm still at the helm and can just loose the stern line (still in hand) and back out of the slip or dock to try again.

Once I have the bow moving towards the dock and I'm certain that the winds, current, and bad luck aren't going to take it away from me, I shift into neutral and hop off the boat with both the bow and stern lines in hand. Again, if I can't power forward hard enough to bring the bow in, I'll release the stern line, back out, and reattempt or choose another location to come into where currents or winds aren't affecting me as badly, come in backwards, or come to the other side of the slip.

Cleat off the stern while managing the bow line, then walk the bow up and cleat that off. Then I handle spring lines and retying everything to my liking once the boat is secure. I shut off the motor once the boat is secure.

I find that having the stern managed first, and being certain that you have the boat under control before hopping off, with a method that allows you to start over any time things are not going your way, generally solves all problems.

The only time I accept helm, even when I'm single handing, is from the professional dockhands at the marina. Other boaters I just wave and smile to as I go about my docking business. I'd rather break my boat myself than have someone else to blame.

That said, I always do offer to help, especially when I see panic on the helmsman's face...

Matt
__________________
mstrebe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 11:07   #22
Registered User
 
redhead's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: PNW 48.59'45N 122.45'50W
Boat: Ian Ross design ketch 63'
Posts: 764
Images: 5
Re: Docking Help (or not)

When I see someone coming in I am usually able to tell within 30 seconds or so if the crew has a plan and it's being executed - or not. If it is I go on my merry way, if not I just yell "Need any help?" and stand still near a cleat. All but one have turned me down, some nicely - some not so much. Again - on my merry way.

Last week a boat was obviously not under control, a woman scrambling about the bow on all fours, a man at the helm looking astern not forward where the FG was about to meet the dock. After offering help the woman nodded and threw me the line. By now, the crowd had gathered.......

Once his attention was focused on the pointy end of the boat the help I was able to give was actually minor. At the end of the adventure he turned on his wife and started a loud and clear rant at her incompetence, blah blah. As we all drifted back to our own boats I whispered to her, "Nice boat, but you need a new captain".

Most help is offered out of ...well, helpfulness. Some out of fear of damage to our own boat. If it's not necessary, smile and ignore it.
__________________
redhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 14:06   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Denmark
Boat: Hallberg-Rassy 42F
Posts: 20
Re: Docking Help (or not)

Excuse me, but what i god's name is wrong with you? If people want to help you with lines docking, what could be wrong with that? It's not nuclear science. Would you turn down help if your car burned or your child was injured, grumpily sayong you're a senior member of the fire brigade or a trauma surgeon of decades' experience? Jeezz ....
__________________
Svalan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 14:54   #24
Moderator
 
weavis's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: SEVILLE - MALLORCA
Posts: 10,140
Send a message via Skype™ to weavis
Re: Docking Help (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svalan View Post
Excuse me, but what i god's name is wrong with you? If people want to help you with lines docking, what could be wrong with that? It's not nuclear science. Would you turn down help if your car burned or your child was injured, grumpily sayong you're a senior member of the fire brigade or a trauma surgeon of decades' experience? Jeezz ....
LOL

Sadly, and it is sad because I agree with you, however, I am still fighting a civil action over 'injuries' sustained by a person who offered to help me. their lawyer maintains that I am responsible because a line was thrown to the 'helper' (who now has "back problems") thus establishing a contract. Gotta love America and its laws.

Docking a boat in weather is not like parking a car. When you park a car the most help you get is arm gestures and directions. Docking a boat and people holding lines means the procedure and actual physical hands on action is shared by a number of people which can cause problems to the helmsmans steerage and throttle action and or crew or dock help. All damage done to my boat at docks has been done with inexperienced help.

My crew are insured. The dock help is not. My crew know what to do, the dock help do not.

I am a physician and I assure you, I would not let any other physician touch a patient in an operative procedure except under my express direction, even if they are senior to me, and you know what? neither would they assume the lead role because its my procedure and until I hand over to them, its my procedure.


So thanks for the rant- and I hope now you know what could go wrong.

__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
weavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 14:54   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Port Aransas, Texas
Boat: 2002 Seawind 1000 (33 ft) Cat
Posts: 841
Re: Docking Help (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentOption View Post
My personal pet peeve is when the person on the dock catches a line then tries to hold or pull the boat in rather than taking it to a cleat. If you are getting set hard away from the dock that line is going in the water.
I can do better. Last year. Returning to the marina after watching July 4 fireworks on the water. Crowd still sitting in lawnchairs on the dock, not having broken up the party yet. My permanent slip, coming in to snag loop end of dock lines that are properly tied to cleat - but without any extra length. Wife has boathook in hand to grab. Guy tries to hand her the line instead, but feels it is tied off too short, so quickly unties so my wife can reach boat cleat. And then your personal pet peeve as he tries to keep the 12,000 lb boat from drifting away by holding the line in his hand and pulling. Gives up, line in the water, now we opt for tying stern first instead. He runs back to help and I think "the look" I gave was enough that he didn't touch that line. Or maybe that I was holding a boat hook at face level.

My personal pet peeve - the parents that think it's ok for kids to swim in the marina. "Oh, look, here comes a catamaran. We don't need to get out of the water - we can just slip between the hulls and swim in the shade!" Moron parents on two counts - 1st, for letting the kids be in position to be human fenders, and 2nd, letting them swim in a marina where occasionally there is fuel overfill or sewage dump.


If someone looks like they are going to help from the dock, we just say "ok, we got it, do it all the time, just fine, etc., etc." I recognize a couple of the local guys and they are ok. Otherwise, just politely repeat, we got it, just leave it, etc.
__________________
sailjumanji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 15:18   #26
Registered User
 
cwyckham's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Niagara 35
Posts: 1,870
Re: Docking Help (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svalan View Post
Excuse me, but what i god's name is wrong with you? If people want to help you with lines docking, what could be wrong with that? It's not nuclear science. Would you turn down help if your car burned or your child was injured, grumpily sayong you're a senior member of the fire brigade or a trauma surgeon of decades' experience? Jeezz ....
Exhibit a) Incompetent help or competent help executing a different plan than everybody else on the boat is worse than no help.
Exhibit b) Half the people offering are incompetent and the other half have no idea what your plan is.

Conclusion: No help is often best.

The classic example is somebody yanking on the bow line and kicking the stern out. There's no way to counter this. When I come in, my bowline is hidden away from view so nobody can grab it.
__________________
Chris
SailMentor.com - Become the Confident Skipper of Your Own Sailboat
cwyckham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 17:30   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Port Aransas, Texas
Boat: 2002 Seawind 1000 (33 ft) Cat
Posts: 841
Re: Docking Help (or not)

Oh, another pet peeve - the guy that is going to help pull your boat closer by grabbing the top of the lifeline stanchion.
__________________
sailjumanji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 17:40   #28
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Boat: Tayana Vancouver 42
Posts: 1,854
Re: Docking Help (or not)

I've decided next time to hand the dockside volunteer helper a dock line that is not connected to the boat just to see what happens.😗


S/V B'Shert
__________________
Tayana42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 17:50   #29
Registered User
 
Stu Jackson's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 6,389
Re: Docking Help (or not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svalan View Post
Excuse me, but what i god's name is wrong with you? If people want to help you with lines docking, what could be wrong with that? It's not nuclear science. Would you turn down help if your car burned or your child was injured, grumpily sayong you're a senior member of the fire brigade or a trauma surgeon of decades' experience? Jeezz ....
IT MIGHT WELL BE THAT YOUR EXPERIENCES ARE DIFFERENT.

I don't know if you've had experience here in the USA. Many of the posts here explain exactly why "no help is always better." Except for those folks we do know personally.

It could well be that the folks on your docks in Denmark know a lot more about how to help.

Most folks, likely 99% here, simply do not.

It's not something any of us take lightly, because the safety of our boats, our guests and our family are at stake.

There's nothing wrong with us,we just know what happens, most of the time, when idiots try to help.

I surely wish we could have experiences like yours, when folks on the dock DO know what to do.

Doesn't happen here.

Just a reality we're sharing, nothing personal.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, (Maple Bay Marina) SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
Stu Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2015, 20:08   #30
Registered User

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Central California
Boat: Catalina 30
Posts: 873
Re: Docking Help (or not)

I've decided next time to hand the dockside volunteer helper a dock line that is not connected to the boat just to see what happens.

Best idea here. Just have a coiled line on the dock that's not
attached to anything and tell them to just hold onto it.
__________________

__________________
Bill
...........................................
You can't buy happiness, but you can buy ribeye.
jongleur is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dock, Docking

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Single-Handed Docking Help Tenedos Seamanship & Boat Handling 50 07-07-2013 11:42
Docking help Thebriansnyder Seamanship & Boat Handling 10 25-06-2013 08:47
Docking Game Stede General Sailing Forum 14 25-05-2010 08:23
WOW, docking for fuel in 55 knot wind NOT Latitude9.5 The Sailor's Confessional 4 23-05-2008 09:09
Docking Help Inkwell Seamanship & Boat Handling 33 25-09-2007 12:03



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:20.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.