Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-05-2012, 23:57   #76
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ohio
Boat: Now boatless :-(
Posts: 11,580
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostrodamus
On a practical sailing exam I was asked to sit at the back of the boat and instruct my pretend novice crew on how to put in a reef by verbal commands only. (testing knowledge and how you spoke to the crew)
After about half an hour they managed it and I was only just managing my frustration.
I was then told to put the same reef in on my own. It took less than five minutes.
If you ever want to test yourself it is an excellent exercise and if you ask for from feedback from the crew you will realise how differently we all give commands and how clear you are making yourself.
Four of us did a similar exercise over the week and one (it has to be said he was pretty obnoxious) chap totally lost it just shouting at everyone. It was good to give him feedback in some pretty plain language
Reminds me of building the C02 filter for Apollo 13. How'd ya like to work under that kind of pressure with just a scratchy radio between you and the crew?

"Put the what in the where? Can you email me a photo? How about a fax diagram?"

New crew can be excused. Trained crew better know the names for stuff...
__________________
Relax Lah! is SOLD! <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 04:01   #77
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

Some problems I see with using terms like "Left" and "Right", "Front" and "Back" to the exclusion of nautical terms like "Port" and "Starboard", "Forrard" and "Aft":

1) The nautical terms have evolved to sound quite different and distinctive, even after being 'enhanced' by the wind's shriek and the flailing of canvas.
These cunning points of difference include different vowels (all of which incidentally lend themselves to far-carrying voice production), different consonants and different number of syllables. (Some used to be almost indistinguishable, before "port" replaced "larboard": bad idea, hence died out, perhaps partly by Darwinian selection ;-) )

2) When someone's standing in the galley, calling to you at the helm for directions to find the fire extinguisher, you don't know which way they're facing. Do you really want to be saying "If you're facing left it's on your left side", instead of "Aft" ?
Or imagine it's behind the stove, but the stove is facing inboard. "Behind the stove" is not the same as "Aft of the stove"
And "Inside" does not mean the same as "Inboard": one is for 3D space, the other for a 2D representation (plan view) of space.

3) If you you don't expect ever to sail with someone again, AND you don't expect them to go sailing with any regularity, it makes little sense to try and introduce nautical terminology.
In all other cases, I can't see the point in not making a start. Otherwise they'll never get past the point of always having to internally translate between (say) 'port' and 'left', which is undesirable, especially considering they don't mean the same thing.

I've got about another three points to go but I get the feeling anyone who's interested would not be reading anything they did not already know.

The possibility also occurs to me that people who are routinely not clear in their directions might be expected to be oblivious to their part in any confusion which results.
Otherwise they'd surely change their ways.

Strong emotional reactions to terminology which has evolved for specialised activities may have less to do with the agenda of those who evolved it, and more to do with the world view of those experiencing the reactions.
Andrew Troup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 04:12   #78
Registered User
 
Panaseaya's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Boat: Compass 47
Posts: 65
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

the pointy end goes frontwardly, right?
Panaseaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 06:23   #79
Registered User
 
stevensuf's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Algarve, Portugal
Boat: Gib sea 43
Posts: 1,008
Images: 10
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

It's funny how it gets to you, just before I left to go cruising I went into a garage to get a new tyre put on the car to sell it, they asked which wheel and without thinking I said port aft, I got a funny look!
__________________
https://nicnsteve.blogspot.com/

If the pen is mightier than the sword, then my keyboard must be a nuclear missile!
stevensuf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 06:58   #80
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,242
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

Even the much loved "pointy end" is confusing on a double ender.

And consider "go back to the pointy end"; just what would that mean on a double ender???
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 07:47   #81
Registered User
 
AquatiCat's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: hailing port: Pensacola on the stern, bodies in Fort Myers
Boat: Prout Snowgoose 37'
Posts: 93
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

Positional information seems to be best delivered in nautical terminology, but "head" and "bathroom" seem to be used interchangeably in our family, with the exception of the actual item, as in "the head's pump is acting clogged again." We also occasionally refer to kitchen rather than galley, although overhead seems to be firmly established rather than ceiling. Lines have to be referred to correctly, for obvious reasons, but I have a plastic-label Dymo electric labeler, so the switches on the electrical panels and the various halyards/topping lift are all clearly labeled at the line brakes. Labeling helps a lot with getting the family into practice, really!
AquatiCat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 09:57   #82
cat herder, extreme blacksheep

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: furycame alley , tropics, mexico for now
Boat: 1976 FORMOSA yankee clipper 41
Posts: 18,967
Images: 56
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

pointy end goes forwardly unless in reverse, then the flat end best be in forwardly motion.
met a female 50 tonner so proud of her license that no one else had any branes. she rarely if ever used nautical terminology yet demanded respect for and of her licensure....was great bad comedy.....
zeehag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 11:53   #83
Registered User
 
Dreaming Yachtsman's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Kennewick, WA
Posts: 507
Images: 6
Send a message via Skype™ to Dreaming Yachtsman
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarafina View Post
One very fine day the fact that someone didn't know what a sheet was landed us all in the water. Of course at that point he couldn't even process "Let go of the ROPE" either, so sometime nothin is gonna help.
Had a similar situation with a non-nautical guest trying to help corral a flailing Genoa during a jibe. Unfortunately I could not get him to let go of the sheet, even when calling it a line or rope. Finally, after repeating the command, "Let go of that line!" in a very loud voice, he got the message and let it run free.

Having grown up on a farm in Wisconsin and never having seen the ocean, I was forced to learn nautical terms very quickly my first summer at the U.S. Naval Academy. After using them exclusively over the following 20 year career, I naturally use them on our boats. BTW, the submarine force has a book that lists the precise name for nearly every piece of equipment on board, how it is to be pronounced, and its authorized abbreviation. A submarine is one place that precise communication is even more important than on a sailboat in heavy weather. Imagine the problems that would arise should the word "no" be confused with "blow" (as in main ballast tanks [MBT])!

My family picked up nautical terminology mainly by osmosis. I know my wife so well now after 35 years that even when she refers to "that thing back there", I can usually figure out what she is talking about, even when she really meant someplace forward. Interestingly with her dyslexia, she confuses port and starboard less than left and right. That means that instead of asking her to turn left or right (which is accepted naval terminology), I will ask her to turn to port or starboard.

When we have non-nautical guests, I usually use the correct nautical term when referring to something the first time, followed by a plain English explanation. Subsequent referrals are with the nautical term followed by English explanation as necessary until they learn the nautical term.

One distinction I still wrestle with, though, is window vs. hatch vs. porthole. Two openings in the forward center of our saloon are large rectangles set at an angle off verticle. They look like hatches because of size and shape but function as portholes. Attached is one propped open with our high-tech Gatorade bottle.

The openings in the sides of our boat are rectangular with rounded corners so calling them portholes, which are normally round, just doesn't seem right. I have started calling them "side ports" instead.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Fwd_hatch.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	202.9 KB
ID:	41692  
__________________
John
Formerly on S/V Yachtsman's Dream
Life is too short to drink bad wine.
Dreaming Yachtsman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 13:58   #84
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Boat: International Etchells USA 125 Black Magic, Santana 20 475 Ghost, Hobie 33 3100 Bruja, dinghies,
Posts: 1,118
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

Portlights? (non-opening window thingies on the side)
__________________
Pat, from the Desert Sea https://desertsea.blogspot.com
rgscpat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 14:02   #85
Guest

Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 433
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

Doesn't every sport, hobby, profession, trade, etc. have its own unique terminology. The Doc doesn't say "I'm going to remove that spongy, rubbery gizmo on your starboard aft because it has grossly fast growing pieces on it." It needs to be made relevant to the audience. The extent of the terminology needs to be sufficient to accomplish the task at hand.
Noname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 14:06   #86
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ontario canada
Boat: grampian 26
Posts: 1,743
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
Portlights? (non-opening window thingies on the side)
AKA scuttles.
perchance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 14:12   #87
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Mexico, USA
Boat: International Etchells USA 125 Black Magic, Santana 20 475 Ghost, Hobie 33 3100 Bruja, dinghies,
Posts: 1,118
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by perchance View Post
AKA scuttles.
Ummm, I think of scuttles as small functional hatchways, such as for passing material, and not as a glazed window to let in light. Someone with more expertise might chime in here.
__________________
Pat, from the Desert Sea https://desertsea.blogspot.com
rgscpat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 15:16   #88
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,242
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

Quote:
Originally Posted by perchance View Post
AKA scuttles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
Ummm, I think of scuttles as small functional hatchways, such as for passing material, and not as a glazed window to let in light. Someone with more expertise might chime in here.
Ummm...I think of cockroaches or an intentional sinking.... maybe this nautical lingo is not so precise afterall
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 16:55   #89
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ohio
Boat: Now boatless :-(
Posts: 11,580
Images: 4
I can never remember the term Limber Holes...

Except now...

My boat needs a few. But the bulkheads are structural...
__________________
Relax Lah! is SOLD! <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-05-2012, 21:08   #90
Registered User

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Miami Florida
Boat: Ellis Flybridge 28
Posts: 4,057
Re: Do you use Nautical Terms or Plain Language?

Wotname, the correct term on a double ender is "Pointy End" and "The Other Pointy End Stupid"
__________________
Retired from Hopkins-Carter Marine Supplies
HopCar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:41.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.