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Old 11-08-2012, 13:57   #61
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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Originally Posted by sailpower View Post
I went ahead and read all the posts but really should have just stopped here.

Well said.
Me too but I just can't keep my mouth shut.
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Old 11-08-2012, 14:30   #62
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Water squatters should be sunk in place or towed into deeper water and sunk with all their worldly goods destroyed. Then put them in public tenement housing where they can be looked after and controlled by the government.

The governments all over the world tear down shanty towns.

Squatting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All you need is pass the necessary regulations and hire heartless enforcers and this problem of the homeless vagabond and the poor squatting on water is gone.

We have done it in this country on land in past years, breaking. bulldozing, setting alight the various Hooverville shanty towns.

The water will still be just as polluted as the cities will pump raw sewage into the water, but they get a pass. Sewage outflows from the cities is likely to get worse.
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Old 11-08-2012, 15:13   #63
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

South Puget Sound is being "cleaned up " as we speak, and Quartermaster harbor in Vashon is next on the list , so Pager might be a bit edgy cuz of that ,.
I am right over in Gig Harbor, which just got a "scrubbing". Used to anchor out, no mo .
I saw very little of the meth activity aboard boats here that I saw in the SF Bay area, but instead tend to feel that the local clean up is politically driven by waterfront landowners.
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Old 11-08-2012, 15:20   #64
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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I like how the problem of sloppy boat owners (they're not homeless if they have a boat as a home), has become a forum people's personal opinions on the overall state of affairs in the world today. Typical.


It's all related. No man (or issue) is an island and all that.
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Old 11-08-2012, 15:21   #65
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Sanitary sewer overflows a big deal in the USA and would cost 88 billion in 2004 to fix, so you know it wont get fixed, it just wont happen, so they get a free pass.

Sanitary sewer overflow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The waste water philosophy of the USA is to combine it all into one and attempt to treat it as a whole. In practice this means lots of sewage just flows into the rivers and seas when there is too much water in the system.

Then you got cities where it just goes into the sea with no treatment and discharged not far enough from shore to make it stay away from the beaches.

It is a sorry mess of crap that will always be flowing into the waters, but people feel better about it because they think the municipalities are dealing with it all the time and know better. I almost never think about sewage flows into the ocean, do you?
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Old 11-08-2012, 15:23   #66
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

When the First Lady came to Alameda to christen a new Coast Guard cutter earlier this year, the Estuary anchor-outs (none of whom you'd want berthing next to you, I garauntee) were simply shoo'd further down the Estuary, away from Coast Guard Island. There has never been any "cleanup" of these types in the Bay Area as long as I've been boating and working on the water, which is over 20 years.

In fact, a recent, dramatic increase in the anchor-out population on the Estuary just happened to coincide with an increase in theft in local marinas, FWIW.
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Old 11-08-2012, 15:24   #67
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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It's all related. No man (or issue) is an island and all that.
By that logic everything and everyone is related and intertwined and discussing any problem is stupid. Its all the same problem. Everything is the same problem.

Get real man. Drug users and losers (I don't care why/how they got that way) infest boats and take over anchorages in places full of people that don't like it. They need to be stopped or else all cruisers will suffer for it.

Its easy to say that we should fix homelessness to solve the derelict problem... But honestly. Get real.
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Old 11-08-2012, 15:29   #68
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Similar problems here in Vancouver. A few years ago, the problem in False Creek got so bad, they finally had to boot the bums and derelict boats out, then require a permit to anchor in the 'creek with a limited stay. False Creek is an ocean waterway that cuts right through downtown Vancouver, so it remains a very popular anchorage.
There was obvious drug use on many of these boats, and a fair number of them had large dogs often running around loose and off-leash. Some of the boats were in such poor condition, concerns were raised about the safety of those living on board.
I'm loathe to see more restrictions placed on freedoms, but the problem posed by the "derelict" community got worse and worse, and the thefts off boats in marinas increased proportionate to the number of derelict boats anchored in the creek, finally resulting in the aformentioned anchoring restrictions.
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Old 11-08-2012, 15:43   #69
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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Libertarianism–or, as it is sometimes called, classical liberalism–the philosophy of John Stuart Mill On Liberty, can be summed up in seven words: “Your rights end where his nose begins.” Government interference with adult consensual activities is unjustified unless it can be shown to be necessary for the protection of the liberty or property of other persons.
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When a boater, through negligence or disregard, drags anchor or chafes through their rode and damages or destroys property belonging to others, they should be held responsible.

I don't want to see any further restrictions on our freedoms, I just would like to see people holding themselves responsible for and taking more notice of the affects they have on others.
I would like to see more stress on communication, working together and reaching out to others rather than more laws.

It's only when we reach a point that we can rely on our own consciousnesses to achieve this, rather than on imposed regulations and restrictions, that we will reach harmony.
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Old 11-08-2012, 16:48   #70
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Responsibilty in the US!! Come on. An old lady burns her crotch with coffee. Is it her fault that she is so stupid as to having a cup of hot coffee between her legs in a moving car? NO Its McDonalds fault because they didn't tell the coffee was hot. A kid pops a cap in his teachers face. Kids fault? NO Lets sue the gun maker after all they should have known a kid might use a gun they made to shoot his teacher. As an owner/manager I always said I had two employees I never saw. The names were Not Me and I Don't Know. If anything was wrong and you asked what happened they were the two that did it. they must be popular guys. they seem to work everywhere from the white house to congress to the corner gas station.
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Old 11-08-2012, 16:53   #71
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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I see, an eyesore, NOT class warfare...
If there are a class of people who aren't contributing anything but negligence to the waterfront, I'm fine with trying to get them gone. The buoys don't maintain themselves and the magical dredging fairy doesn't come through and keep the channels clear. The stuff isn't free and diverting money towards negligent boat owners is a junk idea.
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Old 11-08-2012, 17:26   #72
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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Me too but I just can't keep my mouth shut.
I was going to say what a useless thread this is but in reality it is very useful.

This is one of those threads that tells us way more about the posters than it does about any sort of perceived (or real) problem.

I am sure the mods are grinding their teeth on what to do about this mess. It's all about boating and has nothing to do with boating.

Maybe we take all the homeless and almost homeless and pack them into trains and send them to camps where they can be fed and put to work...

I have already picked out some some suitable camp staff from posters on this thread.

OK - Now the political rant. For the loudly vociferous who "continually" complain about the government please go back to 5th grade and take your civics class over. We are a government "of the people, by the people and for the people."

Who gets to live near a community shore and what rules they follow is left up to "local" government. You don't like the rules they are making then run for city council.

I am sure the President of the United states has bigger things to worry about than who's pooping in your anchorage. Oh, and BTW that is not his job. In reality his job is supposed to be pretty much limited to international diplomacy and declaring wars - LOL...
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Old 11-08-2012, 17:44   #73
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I love government "minimalists" that use GPS, read USGS/DMA charts, listen to NOAA forecasts, and navigate with USCG maintained markers.
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Old 11-08-2012, 17:47   #74
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I love government "minimalists" that use GPS, read USGS/DMA charts, listen to NOAA forecasts, and navigate with USCG maintained markers.
Maybe if they used some of their welfare money they collect from their heroin addiction they could buy a sextant and some slide rules.......oh wait must be a long dinghy ride to the methadone clinic..
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Old 11-08-2012, 18:22   #75
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

The whole world is a plutocracy. Tell me that the government is of the people, by the people, and for the people, when the people get to make some important decisions!
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