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Old 10-08-2012, 19:06   #31
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Anyone who has cruised aboard and tried to clean their bottom in crowded anchorages where people stay quite a while ( and which dont have not much tidal flow/current) realizes that the pollution from boats is huge. Often you will get flu like symtoms for a day after your cleaning job, it's not uncommon to see pieces of TP, and "baby ruth's" floating around. At that point I get out. Georgetown off the Chat and Chill, Luperon etc come to mind..... pump it out outside the harbor!
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:31   #32
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

What you describe is well known and long standing,and because of the locality,and stagnant waterways in some of these harbors and anchorages it becomes a pretty desperate problem.
The solution is a pretty simple one really,,a maneuverable waste treatment pump out barge,,or system which all marine residents long term or otherwise are forced to use via the use of monthly fee cards.

Those who refuse the service are invited to leave Poste Haste,,and those who have systems which are proven clean (air heads etc) get a pass.
I know this raises the specter of more rules and regs,,but really if you think about it,,its the only way forward.



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Anyone who has cruised aboard and tried to clean their bottom in crowded anchorages where people stay quite a while ( and which dont have not much tidal flow/current) realizes that the pollution from boats is huge. Often you will get flu like symtoms for a day after your cleaning job, it's not uncommon to see pieces of TP, and "baby ruth's" floating around. At that point I get out. Georgetown off the Chat and Chill, Luperon etc come to mind..... pump it out outside the harbor!
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Old 10-08-2012, 19:36   #33
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

On the drug problem; why does the CIA keep importing it? (A CIA plane crashed recently with 4 tons of cocaine on board. That is something like 90 million USD in coke.)

Why does big Pharma keep producing the raw ingredients for methamphetamine?

Why are we so pumped full of pharmaceuticals for every known ailment, while healthy diet and healthy lifestyle are overlooked as factors?

Why is cannabis illegal?

Why is our tobacco poisoned?

Why did we invade Afghanistan, home of the largest poppy markets worldwide?

The same people pumping the water full of untreated sewage are pumping our population full of drugs. Then, in an act of shameless misdirection, they tell us that liveaboards are the problem!
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:02   #34
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Cool Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Living aboard in Mexico and even here we try to keep a clean wake, ie pull up the anchor and head offshore where pumping out does not cause local pollution in the anchorages. Or go into the marina and pay a small fee to pump out. It's just being responcible. Unfortunitly some will choose to be less than responcible which causes local goverment to act to protext the enviorment and the public, and reflects poorly on us all. We have VHF radio nets every morning and discuss such matters as well as what we as cruisers can do for locals in need, usually children, housing and low income causes. This all goes a long way to create comunities we all are proud to live in reguardless of our income status as my wife and I are not wealthy but have a great life cruising. Seems most trouble starts when boats are no longer capable of moving on their own or neglected ground tackle results in boats on the beach.Maybe that's a place to start require anchored boats to have propulsion and have maintained ground tackle, I don't think that would be asking to much. Just saying.
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:16   #35
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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Live Aboards could be regarded as living an environmentally friendly lifestyle. Low power consumption, efficient use of construction materials compared to large houses, usually living near their workplace and facilities, or retired, so not much weekly commuter consumption.
Pollution from discharges is usually dealt with by dilution so, unless your living in a stagnant backwater, maceration and discharge of fresh fish food is better than holding the stuff until it becomes putrid and discharging to where it is more difficult to deal with.

But in the case that really prompted all of this, he WAS living near water that did not circulate freely, and he clearly was dumping human waste, and you can't drive by that beach without seeing small children playing in the water. It's an extremely safe little beach for small children *because* of the lack of current (and the very gradual incline).

My footprint on the planet is remarkably smaller since I moved aboard, but there are still some civil "necessaries."
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:18   #36
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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So, how much time have you actually spent in S Florida?

I used to live in SW Florida and there were areas that were becoming essentially boat ghettos. Truly derelict boats full of derelict people -- not some idealistic little "trustafarrian" commune.

While the attempts to deal with this issue appear to have gotten a bit out of hand, and effected boaters that do not fall into this category -- it was in fact a real tangible issue in certain areas.

The USA is hardly a medieval fiefdom -- more like clueless Disney Land. You wanna see what a modern day midieval fiefdom really looks like -- let me take you on a little trip through Guate.

Absolutely. I could show you a couple of "boat ghettoes" right in the St. Pete area.
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Old 10-08-2012, 20:29   #37
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

There are more empty houses in America than there are homeless people. The homeless person is a symptom of a dystopia, not a cause.
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Old 10-08-2012, 21:18   #38
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave and Leiann Scee View Post
Living aboard in Mexico and even here we try to keep a clean wake, ie pull up the anchor and head offshore where pumping out does not cause local pollution in the anchorages. Or go into the marina and pay a small fee to pump out. It's just being responcible. Unfortunitly some will choose to be less than responcible which causes local goverment to act to protext the enviorment and the public, and reflects poorly on us all. We have VHF radio nets every morning and discuss such matters as well as what we as cruisers can do for locals in need, usually children, housing and low income causes. This all goes a long way to create comunities we all are proud to live in reguardless of our income status as my wife and I are not wealthy but have a great life cruising. Seems most trouble starts when boats are no longer capable of moving on their own or neglected ground tackle results in boats on the beach.Maybe that's a place to start require anchored boats to have propulsion and have maintained ground tackle, I don't think that would be asking to much. Just saying.
WAWow!!! A member for seven years and a total of two posts. Certainly a man of few words. There's a lot of posters on this board who could take a lesson from you.
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Old 10-08-2012, 21:20   #39
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

I take your point and agree Tager,, however.... that does not give someone license or permission to crap where i sleep, or where my kids swim.

I was quite vocal in supporting efforts to get Jay of the beach,,,but in no way do i support his way of dealing with his waste or the treatment of his animal.

He's going to have to suck it up like the rest of us,or give up the lifestyle cos were all in this to-gether.


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There are more empty houses in America than there are homeless people. The homeless person is a symptom of a dystopia, not a cause.
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Old 10-08-2012, 21:46   #40
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

I like how the problem of sloppy boat owners (they're not homeless if they have a boat as a home), has become a forum people's personal opinions on the overall state of affairs in the world today. Typical.
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Old 10-08-2012, 22:16   #41
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

tager, although I respect your opinion, I think that maybe you see the world through rose tinted glasses. S. Fl. is different than many parts of the country. With our climate we have a lot of snowbirds that come south each winter. But while many of those own condos etc. we have a lot that are homeless also. Every winter we have a couple of cold snaps. Extra homeless shelters are opened and various agencies send vans out to bring in the homeless. They also bring whatever blankets they can because they know that a large amount won't come prefering to sleep on the street so they give them blankets. A majority of homeless are mentally ill, have drug or alcohol problems or both. unless a person wants help nothing that you do will help.I wonder if you would be so generous if that vacant house was next door to yours and they moved in a bunch of homeless people that were pissing on your roses and passing out on the front lawn. Sorry but money and wishing won't solve the problem. I don't know what the answer is I wish I did.
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Old 10-08-2012, 22:38   #42
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Require USCG (auxiliary) inspections every year for basic safety. Have the inspections be at a dock close by that requires the vessel to either get their under its own power or be towed.

Easy way to enforce a bare minimum standard that would make it super hard for the disgusting boats to handle.
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:02   #43
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Wow after reading some of the posts I realized that many feel that our government is unduly repressive. It truly troubles me that some feel that way.

I am committing myself to assist in any way possible to help those individuals who feel persecuted to sail to the realm of a government that is less repressive. Off the top of my head, based on recent posts, the governments of Panama, Honduras, those in/by the Horn of Africa and several other countries have shown that they allow their citizens the level of freedom that some seek.

Me? I've seen enough to know that the few "freedoms" I sacrifice here are nothing compared to what those "free" people are giving up..

Bill
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Old 10-08-2012, 23:33   #44
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Originally Posted by s/vfootloose
tager, although I respect your opinion, I think that maybe you see the world through rose tinted glasses. S. Fl. is different than many parts of the country. With our climate we have a lot of snowbirds that come south each winter. But while many of those own condos etc. we have a lot that are homeless also. Every winter we have a couple of cold snaps. Extra homeless shelters are opened and various agencies send vans out to bring in the homeless. They also bring whatever blankets they can because they know that a large amount won't come prefering to sleep on the street so they give them blankets. A majority of homeless are mentally ill, have drug or alcohol problems or both. unless a person wants help nothing that you do will help.I wonder if you would be so generous if that vacant house was next door to yours and they moved in a bunch of homeless people that were pissing on your roses and passing out on the front lawn. Sorry but money and wishing won't solve the problem. I don't know what the answer is I wish I did.
Footloose,

I am sorry, but what an awful way to group or in reality "judge" people. There are so many homeless people that do not deserve to be grouped by your sentiments. Our world has changed. Homelessness does not, by any means, mean that someone is a drug addict or a menace. There are so many good people that have found themselves to be down and out for a number of reasons. Medical care in the US is so unbelievably expensive. Many people have lost everything because of illness, either themselves or a loved one. What about the ones that have been laid off? My brother is a great example. Laid off in December of 2010. Still no job. He does not get any type of government assistance. His wife is an RN and makes too much. Not enough to pay for the home that they bought as a two income family. They are barely holding on with help from family. They are proud and upstanding people.

As for homelessness and how would you feel if this was your neighbor, I understand first hand. I live in a very nice neighborhood but the home next door to me is in foreclosure. Interestingly enough, in the past year, no one has been there, NOONE!!! There is not a for sale sign, foreclosure sign, nothing. The neighborhood association comes by every now and then and mows the front yard. The back yard grass is at least four feet high. I have spent a fortune at the vets office due to fleas that have infested in my dogs because of it. This is not a problem of the homeless or of drug addicts or anything else associated with anyone that does not want to help themselves. Who is to blame, in my opinion the bank. They own too many foreclosures and don't know what to do with them.

Be happy that S. Florida gets the benefits of snow birds. People that come and enjoy and spend money. Income for your area and lots of it. That is not the case for most areas. Please forgive me, as I don't get your point about the homeless. This is a problem everywhere and as things are going will only get worse.

I am fortunate and can enjoy my new lifestyle. I DO have much concern for others, refuse to judge, and will help where I can. God willing , I will make a difference in someone's life. Homeless or not!
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Old 11-08-2012, 00:39   #45
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Suzybro, sorry if I offended you. Believe me I understand what you are saying. I have been unemployed as long as your brother(try finding a decent job at 57). My wife had major surgery last Nov. and was out of work for 4 months. Her left kidney died in the last month. We are going to Gainesville next week to have the rest of her bypasses checked to make sure they are alright. BOA is threating to repo our house we have had for 32 years. I do understand that a lot folks are in situations now that they never expected to be in. We had plans to be cruising by now. What a difference 2 years makes. But that doesn't change the fact that a large part of the homeless community have mental/dependence problems and will continue be homeless. It doesn't change the fact that you can't help someone until they want to be helped. It's sad that that is the way it is and I wish it were different.
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