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Old 14-08-2012, 16:47   #136
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Its funny that city/county/state agencies can't find the money to remove unwanted/derelict boats and/or enforce the existing laws/regulations. But the cities can find the money to build mooring fields.

I spent some time on a mooring ball in St. Augustine last year and had a long conversation on this subject with the powers that be at the St. Augustine municipal marina. Their claim was that it was really difficult/costly/time consuming to enforce existing regulations. And it was costly to the city for EMS services and such to the 'free loaders' anchored in their jurisdiction that paid no taxes. And on and on ...

So they built three mooring fields reducing the space available to anchor to a few percent of what it was. Unwanted/derelict boat problem mostly solved for St. Augustine.

Now the city has a new revenue stream. Its really all about money or lack of it.

I like the mooring field in St. Augustine. I spent 4 months on a ball there last year and two weeks this year. I'm not bashing mooring fields. Just pointing out the direction many places are/will take to deal with unwanted/derelict boats.
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Old 14-08-2012, 16:50   #137
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

I would say dirt is an indicator of derelict status. If the boat is completely unsailable, and completely unsaleable, and has 8 years of seagull ****, shells, bottom growth, holes in the sailcovers, etc. It's derelict.

I once suggested my friend name his boat the Darryl Licked. He did not like that idea.
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Old 14-08-2012, 16:54   #138
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Per BoatUS the average cost in Florida to remove and dispose of a boat is $450 a foot. This is a tad high mainly as some of the boats are larger commercial vessels, barges, etc..

BTW that is just for abandoned boats, not low end liveaboards.

The problem with setting up a salvage company is most of the boats in question have very little actual salvageable items. Other then the lead in the keels, there's not much that is worth anything. Anyone for a rusty bent stanchion post..
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Old 14-08-2012, 17:01   #139
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

completely unsailable and covered in **** is very different from "dirty".

My boat doesn't look so great, it's not exactly dirty, but it could certainly use a few coats of paint on the deck. Combined with the tarp I use as a sun cover and the small bits of junk in the cockpit, I have no doubt the yachties walking by turn their noses up.

What they don't see is all the work I've already done to it. And what they don't know is that it might take me another year or two before I get the boat in the condition I'd like it to be. And that even though I haven't left the slip in a while, the boat is still 100% sailable. And that the exterior appearance is the very last thing on my to-do list (because I don't care what "they" think).

You really can't judge a book by it's cover. If a boat is half sinking, can't sail, can't motor, can't keep an appropriate anchor (or even docklines), then it doesn't matter how much varnish and paint is on the exterior.

I happen to know a guy who puts the exterior appearance above the sailing/motoring capabilities of his boat. I can give you 100% guarantee he'll never go anywhere. If he was at anchor right now, he'd be a derelict IMO, even though he has a gallon of varnish and enough supplies to pretty the whole thing up.
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Old 14-08-2012, 17:02   #140
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

a very interesting fact was learned when san diego did exactly what st augustine is doing--there were many small boats abandoned in the location that was named anchorage 8. of those abandoned boats, more than 2/3 were dumps--dumped by the snotty dwellers of coronado cays when the boat was no longer used by the owner--he would merely tow it across bay and dump it sans anchor. they were also the main source of conmplaints about the anchorage ans folks living there. there were many bad guys and creeps, but also were families not able to make it on minimum wage in usa. most of the boats looked like crap but there were many good ones.

i am constantly being advised to varnish my rails--lol--aint any way that will happen. i SAIL my boat and do not mess with substances not necessary on teak wood.
i also repair my boat, as is a formosa and does have a few issues, and i keep a bunch of tarps over it to keep off fresh water from house and decks, and to keep boat cool in tropix....
if any of you has ever repaired and resided in that boat being repaired--then ye can make comments. if not--do not try to judge.
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Old 14-08-2012, 17:02   #141
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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Originally Posted by SurferShane View Post
Although I don't agree with all their powers especially the no liveaboard clauses, this is where NSW Maritime laws & regs do seem to work. Let your boat go and they will send you a polite letter to clean it up. Ignore numerous letters and they can impound and eventually auction your boat.

Likewise, they can slap a notice to remove on unregistered and illegally moored boats. Again, after an impound period, they can sell the boat.

If you end up in either of the above situations the trick is to communicate with Maritime. They are fairly understanding. Never ignore the warnings. The cost of them towing, impounding and the fines are prohibitive. Something I don't particularly agree with, generally being another blow to those who could not afford to pay in the first place. Nevertheless, if you deliberately ignore a notice to remove you get what you deserve

Kudos to the Aussies who have a reasonable plan. Why is this not possible in the U.S.?
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Old 14-08-2012, 17:06   #142
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Wow this thread has taken a few turns.

Yet the bottom line is, is passing a new law that requires me to pay for a marina when passing through Florida the best way to stop people from camping out on a hulk anchored off of a million dollar beachfront home?

The arguments for; so far include, drugs, noise, smell, and look dirty, and don't pay taxes.

The first drugs, are against the law, we don't prosecute drugs in ghettos, and apparently not in anchorages either.

None of the suggestions, reasons, or laws address people that are passing through, and derelics, (who I presume are the reason for the laws), and not just that the city marinas want more money.
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Old 14-08-2012, 17:06   #143
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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Per BoatUS the average cost in Florida to remove and dispose of a boat is $450 a foot. This is a tad high mainly as some of the boats are larger commercial vessels, barges, etc..

BTW that is just for abandoned boats, not low end liveaboards.

The problem with setting up a salvage company is most of the boats in question have very little actual salvageable items. Other then the lead in the keels, there's not much that is worth anything. Anyone for a rusty bent stanchion post..
That's just the number they're reporting so they can keep getting those $100k checks from the FED and keep applying for those grants. It's BS that it costs that much, unless the boat is grounded and in need of cranes and barges etc... but to just tow away a boat, haul it in a yard, chop it up, and take it to the dump isn't going to cost any more than maybe $20 a foot.

How many people in Florida have actually witnessed their city haul a derelict boat away? Again, ask them where all that money is really going!
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Old 14-08-2012, 17:19   #144
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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Old 14-08-2012, 17:20   #145
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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I understand the Swiss government can't even raise taxes or join the UN without a referendum.
They have low crime rates despite millions of immigrant workers and they have avoided wars.
I would say that it is very profitable to stradle the fence when others are at war...makes being"neutral" a very attractive position...DVC
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Old 14-08-2012, 17:22   #146
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

Oh the cost is not just the removal of the boat. It's in the law enforcement checking on the boat multiple times to see if someone visits the boat. sending letters to the registered owner, waiting, repeat, repeat then and only then dispose of the boat.

The cost to actually dispose of the boat is only part of the cost. The total cost includes all the clerks, officers, etc that have to visit, document and write reports and mail letters, etc for each vessel...
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Old 14-08-2012, 17:23   #147
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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I would say dirt is an indicator of derelict status. If the boat is completely unsailable, and completely unsaleable, and has 8 years of seagull ****, shells, bottom growth, holes in the sailcovers, etc. It's derelict.

I once suggested my friend name his boat the Darryl Licked. He did not like that idea.
I dont like that idea either..lol...Daryl
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Old 14-08-2012, 17:26   #148
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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Many of the people in places such as Richardson bay for example are living as best they can. Most are not druggies, just average folk really.. Many have a part time job but can't afford the rents and utilities a land based life requires. Many actually are quite independent people and are not looking for handouts.
The people of Richardson Bay also have rockstar policemen, say in comparision to Gulfport - must be something to do with tax rates.

We've chartered out of Sausolito a couple of times now. My brother has a real POS ford escort he lets me drive when I visit. One night I was returning to the boat about 8-9pm (after dark anyway) and sure enough robocop spun a u-turn and pulled me over basically right in front of the marina entrance.

Thos car is basically a moving violation - one low beam headlight out, dodgy tailight, smashed external rear view, etc.

The cop shone his light in the car. - I gave him a Singapore Driving license. His line of questioning was to figure out if I was a community threat. When I explained I was a yachtie on charter he gave a knowing grin, told me all the violations he could write up but basically sent me on my way. Most yachties look homeless when in boat mode. Especially me.

Was I violating some laws - yes
Should I have been cited - yes
Was I glad the cop had discretion in these matters - yes
If the next guy got cited would that be fair - no

Should I have got all shirtie about the invasion of my right to live free and drive a crappy car. No - that cop had a duty to find out who I was. He's on night patrol. I'd hate to have to approach a POS ford escort with a dodgy taillight at night. Hats of to these folks.

He now knew who I was, if I was up to no good he knew that I knew that he knew who I was. I call that a good traffic stop.

Anyway - ya can't judge a book by its cover...
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Old 14-08-2012, 17:32   #149
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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Oh the cost is not just the removal of the boat. It's in the law enforcement checking on the boat multiple times to see if someone visits the boat. sending letters to the registered owner, waiting, repeat, repeat then and only then dispose of the boat.

The cost to actually dispose of the boat is only part of the cost. The total cost includes all the clerks, officers, etc that have to visit, document and write reports and mail letters, etc for each vessel...
I understand their reasoning. I just think it's BS

That would make $13,500 total cost to remove a single 30 foot boat. And their reasoning is the "extra" cost for cops that are already on patrol to stop by and check a few boats each day, for clerks who are already at work to put one extra letter in the mailbox that day, the cost of stamps that they already have rolls of, the letterhead that they already have bails of, etc.. etc..

These people are already in place and already being paid for their time in a day. The materials they use are already paid for, and the "extra" money is already budgeted to this specific resource for this specific reason....It's not a matter of extra cost, it's just a matter of allocating time, and actually spending the money on what it was meant for.
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Old 14-08-2012, 17:33   #150
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Re: Derelicts and Live Aboard Hulks

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