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Old 17-08-2019, 19:16   #1
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Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

Case 1
They were a nice older Korean couple. He built the boat himself in Pusan (Busan) . I recall watching them do maintenance projects in Miri, Malaysia and everything seemed okay.

Years later, another sailor reported they were observed giving things away from their vessel. Things you wouldn't normally part with and need.

They then set out and have never been heard from again.

I suspect in part this was cultural. Perhaps, as they got older they did not want to return to Korea and be a burden to their children?

Case 2
He was a bit of a loner spending several days at a time without going to shore. We were aware something was not completely right and expressed our genuine concern. However, exactly what can you do when he claims he is fine and your gut tells you something is amiss? His vessel was capable and big. We doubt when he went missing it had anything to do with the vessel.

I am sure these are not the only two cases of sailors who have apparently intentionally embarked on one final sailing trip.

Other examples?

What warning signs have you observed?

What can be done?
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Old 17-08-2019, 20:50   #2
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Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

Donald Crowhurst comes to mind.

But I have a friend who took her last voyage ( ashore at the time) two months ago in a very very Intentional way. Iíve known others who have killed them selves as well. Most of us have I expect
Depression and suicide are often uncomfortable to contemplate or talk about. But if as a community we donít talk about self harm we are unable to help those in need.
Iíve had friends and family who have been helped in significant ways by their communities. Therapists are a part of that.
So yes, ask ďare you okĒ and donít ever expect you will understand someoneís personal demons. But you just might help someone.
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Old 17-08-2019, 21:16   #3
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

Let them go to Neptune as they see fit.
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Old 17-08-2019, 23:31   #4
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

Comes a time for all of us. I would much prefer to be on the boat during my final moments than anywhere else I can think of - however that may be arranged without causing harm to others or the environment.
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Old 17-08-2019, 23:58   #5
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

What can be done? Noninterference. As long as they are not harming anyone else, nothing. It does raise the issue of an abandoned boat perhaps being a hazard both navigational and environmental, however. If a planned suicide is to occur, then perhaps they scuttled the boat as well. Hopefully after running the tanks dry.

But if I knew my time was here, I would absolutely be happy sailing off into the sunset rather than a suburban hospice.
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Old 18-08-2019, 00:19   #6
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

While I'm sure the old...setting the old eskimos adrift on an iceberg... does happen. The stories told do not provide any substantial evidence that they went down intentionally.

Seems a complicated, time consuming and problematic way to do it. If they have thought it out that far, I'm sure they realize they are likely to be adrift and slowly die due to dehydration. Not only that for the one, it would have to be a couple agreeing to do this.

If they are going to give it some thought and plan it out, there are a lot easier less painful ways to do it.
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Old 18-08-2019, 01:39   #7
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

Yes I see nothing wrong with this decision, in fact find it admirable.

Trying to interfere with this most fundamental right is incredibly disrespectful.
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Old 18-08-2019, 04:56   #8
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

The preliminary group concensus appears to not intervene and I am having trouble with this.

I can't help but think of alternate endings to both of their stories. Neither case I relayed involved people with life threatening physical medical issues.
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Old 18-08-2019, 05:06   #9
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

I have thought about this myself in the past. Haven’t got a problem with it. I have been involved in many searches for missing persons on land and sea and had to console and report to the families involved. Knowing the high cost of the searches and the high emotional cost to families and friends when a body is not recovered I would recommend doing it in a remote anchorage and if intending to jump over and drown etc tether yourself to the boat so your body at least can be recovered and give some relief to your family.
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Old 18-08-2019, 05:11   #10
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
The preliminary group concensus appears to not intervene and I am having trouble with this.

I can't help but think of alternate endings to both of their stories. Neither case I relayed involved people with life threatening physical medical issues.
I agree, I was thinking of some one near the end of life with a poor outlook who may not have a good quality of life left.
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Old 18-08-2019, 05:56   #11
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
The preliminary group concensus appears to not intervene and I am having trouble with this.

Why? If someone decides to end their own life, and does it in a fashion where they basically very quietly just vanish, what's it to you?



Not trying to start an argument here, but I feel that if someone wishes to end their life on their own terms that they should be able to do so without outside interference. After all, it's their life, not ours.



Quote:

I can't help but think of alternate endings to both of their stories. Neither case I relayed involved people with life threatening physical medical issues.

That you know of. There may have been depression, or maybe other reasons. Who knows?
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Old 18-08-2019, 07:14   #12
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

Quote:
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The preliminary group concensus appears to not intervene and I am having trouble with this.
I would have trouble with this notion too. I personally know 2 that took their own lives.The effects of those deaths was far reaching to the ones who loved them. No doubts that depression or other feelings of hopelessness were involved.

I was at a tavern last night where a set of parents told the story of one their child being on the edge of suicide related to PTSD from military service who was drawn back from said edge primarily through non-judgemental demonstrations of love/acceptance from one of the other siblings. I could not begin to imagine that set of emotions to know that your child was that close to the end...

One of the awareness/help groups I have heard of, I spent some time as a support person for their cycling events the last few summers.

https://save.org/
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Old 18-08-2019, 09:08   #13
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

I am also in the in the 'is there nothing that could be done' boat. Most of our society has little experience with grief issues, end of days discussions, is quality of life always physical and the right to finish life how one sees fit. If there was one word, one phrase, one action that would cause someone to change their perception, would it be worth it? For them or for you? Or does any question fall into the 'interference' category? Each to his own, as has been expressed here in different ways. Funny how we don't always celebrate the end like we always do for the beginning of life. Most intelligent form of life on the planet, and have difficulty with the one thing that's inevitable for us all.
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Old 18-08-2019, 09:10   #14
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

I disagree with the "non-intervene" principle (except in cases of terminal illness).

Many of these situations are very delicate and can resolve either way. Sometimes, just a word or a gesture of care can swing people back to choosing life over oblivion. All of us have a strong survival instinct. In those situations, we may be desperately looking, consciously or unconsciously, for a reason to change our mind. Being a situation by definition unstable, sometimes a very small new "element" can shake the resolve of ending life.

It is very hard to intervene, even in such a small way as to ask "are you all right?". These situations are very personal, we all are obviously reluctant to intrude in somebody's else privacy, even by asking a question.

And, let's face it, these situations are very unpleasant and delicate, as human beings we are naturally predisposed to stay away from being unpleasant and possibly unwelcome. We should not stay away, we can make a difference. Not always, but sometimes. And even if we succeed just one time, it is worth it to try.
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Old 18-08-2019, 09:17   #15
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Re: Cruisers last trips, intentional never returns

All I believe that one can do is show friendship and love - become personally involved with the individual. This may give them a reason to go on ... but in the end it is their right and choice.

If you are not willing to do this, your concern seems a little questionable and judgmental.

Sympathy is feeling sorry for someone. Empathy is being able to relate / feel their pain. True compassion is being willing to do something.

The issue of impact on others (environmentally, emotionally and economically) is a interest point and I would hope that the individual would give these issues consideration. However, many that reach this point may not have the capacity left to think it through. If you befriend them, bringing up these issues may give them pause, and allow them to make modified choices.
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