Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-10-2015, 10:45   #1
Registered User
 
ClaudiaJ's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 13
Creative way to dredge to icw

I am considering purchase of property that has a dock on the ICW but the dock hasn't been used for a boat so dredging will be required for about forty feet to get to the channel of the icw. Any creative ideas about how to do this? Or just non creative practical advice also welcome.



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________

__________________
ClaudiaJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2015, 10:49   #2
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

I have given this some thought, due to living on a river where the mouth is getting silted in. I was thinking about getting a small suction dredge like they use for amateur gold mining and then have a small raft behind it for the discharge, something that would allow the water to run off while keeping the silt on board, and of course I would still use the sluice box, cause you never know if there might be gold in the tailings. Then take the tailings ashore and in my case since it is sand, use it for creating my own sandy beach on my property.
__________________

__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2015, 10:53   #3
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detai...57.35.1.zUnKyn


This link illustrates what I am talking about, I have no interest in this particular dredge, just wanted show you what I meant.
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2015, 10:55   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,388
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

Before going forward with this I highly recommend you check with appropriate authorities to see if dredging will be allowed in the area and if so, what if any restrictions like control of silt and sediment, discharge of the spoil, etc.

I think the Army Corp of Engineers has say so on navigable waterways but local regulations may also apply.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-10-2015, 11:07   #5
Wayfaring Mariner
 
captain58sailin's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Homer, AK is my home port
Boat: Skookum 53'
Posts: 4,045
Images: 5
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

Keene Engineering 3" Gold Dredge with 3.5HP Honda Pump & Air Compressor for sale in Anchorage, AK | ALASKA MINING & DIVING SUPPLY, INC. AK (800) 478-3444


Alaska Suction Dredging Regulations


Here is another couple of links, one is for a small suction dredge and the other is for the permitting process on federal and state lands, I am sure where you live will have different rules, but this can give you a general overview of the requirements.
__________________
" Wisdom; is your reward for surviving your mistakes"
captain58sailin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2015, 09:15   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ, and PNW
Boat: Seaward 25, Beneteau 40
Posts: 162
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Before going forward with this I highly recommend you check with appropriate authorities to see if dredging will be allowed in the area and if so, what if any restrictions like control of silt and sediment, discharge of the spoil, etc.

I think the Army Corp of Engineers has say so on navigable waterways but local regulations may also apply.
I think Skipmac has it right. Here are my thoughts:

If I already owned the property, I might do some research on dredging it myself. It would really depend on what is on the bottom, the volume that needed to be moved and the regulations involved. You say it needs 40 ft of dredging but not how wide or how deep. If it is 10 ft wide and 4 ft deep that needs to be removed that is just under 60 yards of mud. At the optimistic rated capacity of the dredge in the second link of 1/2 yd per hour it will take 120 hours of dredging plus the time to empty and transport the mud, which will be very very heavy.

Since you haven't bought the property yet, I would throw that idea way onto the back burner and get a proper firm quote from a reputable dredging contractor. That will give you a worst case number to work with. Given the choice of paying a guy to come in and do the work over a couple of days versus me spending the next two months of back breaking crawling in the mud I am pretty sure I know which way I would go!

By the way, I come from a mining background so I have an idea how much work it takes to move muck.
__________________
canyonbat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2015, 09:20   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,388
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

Quote:
Originally Posted by canyonbat View Post
I think Skipmac has it right. Here are my thoughts:

If I already owned the property, I might do some research on dredging it myself. It would really depend on what is on the bottom, the volume that needed to be moved and the regulations involved. You say it needs 40 ft of dredging but not how wide or how deep. If it is 10 ft wide and 4 ft deep that needs to be removed that is just under 60 yards of mud. At the optimistic rated capacity of the dredge in the second link of 1/2 yd per hour it will take 120 hours of dredging plus the time to empty and transport the mud, which will be very very heavy.

Since you haven't bought the property yet, I would throw that idea way onto the back burner and get a proper firm quote from a reputable dredging contractor. That will give you a worst case number to work with. Given the choice of paying a guy to come in and do the work over a couple of days versus me spending the next two months of back breaking crawling in the mud I am pretty sure I know which way I would go!

By the way, I come from a mining background so I have an idea how much work it takes to move muck.
I see another benefit to getting a quote from a professional dredger. In my experience looking at installing a mooring, the pros have already dealt with the permitting process and can quickly tell you what can and cannot be done, where it can or cannot be done, and what's involved in the permitting process.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2015, 10:09   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 209
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

There used to be a guy in Stuart Florida, That had a boat with a big inboard, running a pair of 3 ft props, That would park his boat in your dock area. Then at night he would run those big props and wash the muck out of your mooring area. I imagine he is in jail or at least out of business by now. Mac
__________________
Hard Rock Candy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2015, 10:13   #9
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,371
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

I would be surprised you can do it without a permit and Enviro evaluation.
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2015, 10:32   #10
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: May 2011
Location: PDX
Boat: Gulfstar 50
Posts: 896
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

We are taking delivery of our new dredge in early November (A badger BTW). The cost was around $300k. We dredge our own marina on the Columbia River with our old and very used dredge which has served us well for many years.

the first thought is that there are many, many rules, regulations and taxes to pay for a dredging operation at our site. I recall that we spend somewhere around $10k for the 5 year permit.

The permit specifies when we can dredge and has to specify what dredge equipment we use. (November to December typically) Also we must monitor the turbidity and keep it under specific levels.

Spoils are pumped up onshore in a settling pond which we pay taxes on (taxes on how many cubic yards removed). The spoils are fine sand which we give to a local sand and gravel place. In return they take away the spoils and prep the pond for the next dredging cycle.

For us the cost a commercial dredger would run $150k a year or so... So having our own dredge is a win.

I would strongly recommend looking into the local, state and federal requirements in order to legally dredge that channel. I would also look into the cost of a commercial dredge operation that could do all the permitting for you. Firm, fixed price....

Once the initial channel is cut you would need to keep on top of it.
__________________
evm1024 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2015, 11:26   #11
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,066
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Before going forward with this I highly recommend you check with appropriate authorities to see if dredging will be allowed in the area and if so, what if any restrictions like control of silt and sediment, discharge of the spoil, etc.

I think the Army Corp of Engineers has say so on navigable waterways but local regulations may also apply.
That or do it at night with prop wash, in jest. Since it was considering buying you have the right advise. I'm guessing the OP will find the laws are restrictive.


May even involve Wildlife, EPA, and tree huggers, etc. etc.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2015, 12:19   #12
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,953
Images: 6
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Before going forward with this I highly recommend you check with appropriate authorities to see if dredging will be allowed...
Quote:
Originally Posted by evm1024 View Post
...there are many, many rules, regulations and taxes to pay for a dredging operation ...
You would be well advised to heed these warnings. I sincerely doubt that there is anywhere left in the United States where you can legally dredge without first getting some sort of permit from someone!

Here in the Tampa Bay area I know that you can't. I know this because someone tried it a while ago and ended up in the news. They not only got slapped with a hefty fine, but were also required to pay the cost of repairing the bay-bottom.
__________________
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2015, 13:17   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: UK, Croatia
Boat: Fountaine Pajot Athena 11.6m Rapa Nui II
Posts: 379
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

If you have some flow to take away suspended silt, why not tow a loop of chain tied to each quarter up and down. Works really well in soft mud. Best with a shallow draft launch. You can pretend you are trawling for prawns or whatever.
__________________
Rapanui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2015, 13:36   #14
bmz
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Annapolis, MD
Boat: Irwin Citation 34
Posts: 149
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

The cheapest way would be to just extend the dock the 40'.
__________________
bmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-10-2015, 13:40   #15
Registered User
 
jldunn86's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Texas
Boat: C&C 121
Posts: 45
Re: Creative way to dredge to icw

If you can use the fill, by far the cheapest would be to rent an extended reach excavator and simply dig it out...http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...lies/peace.gif
__________________

__________________
PopArcher
jldunn86 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
icw

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Proposal to Dredge Waukegan Harbor rognvald Great Lakes 1 13-08-2014 13:27
Creative Help Needed writer859 Meets & Greets 34 14-09-2011 21:45
Creative Tender Names oldsalt_1942 Off Topic Forum 55 03-03-2008 04:37



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:49.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.