Crappy news today, Florida Keys Pumpout stops Jan 31

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

This is why it's in the public interest to subsidize the activity.

And I don't disagree.

[Shrew]

Let's be clear on what we're talking about here. Much of the money funding these 'Clean Water' programs is coming from vessel registration to begin with. It's being contended that this shouldn't be a burden to the tax payer. I'd like to see evidence that this is coming from income tax or property tax revenue. Otherwise stating that "..the taxpayer shouldn't have to pay for it.." is a bit ridiculous since I have yet to see evidence of that to begin with.


That being said, the grant money is for pump-out services. The announcement is that the pump-out BOAT will no longer be free. Nobody said the funds had to be allocated to a boat which will come around for our convenience.


I would, however, expect to see more self-pumpout stations and more stringent enforcement that marina's who accept grant money for marina pumput facilities maintain their systems more consistently. (I find far too many marinas telling me "Sorry, the pumpout is broken".).

[Island Time O25]

If it's a public good - clean waters - it should definitely be public expense. Just as indigent smokers' medical treatment is paid not just by individual smokers but also by society at large.

A good example would be those "rest areas" along the highways. One may never use any of them, especially if one does not drive or own a car but one is still paying for them. Same with pumpouts.

The state already hits boat owners up for $$ in the form of sales taxes, registration fees, property taxes, marina fees, etc. So the question should be not whether or not the state has enough funds to continue subsidizing pupmouts but where the funds already collected from boating activities go?

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by Shrew

Let's be clear on what we're talking about here. Much of the money funding these 'Clean Water' programs is coming from vessel registration to begin with. It's being contended that this shouldn't be a burden to the tax payer. I'd like to see evidence that this is coming from income tax or property tax revenue. Otherwise stating that "..the taxpayer shouldn't have to pay for it.." is a bit ridiculous since I have yet to see evidence of that to begin with.


That being said, the grant money is for pump-out services. The announcement is that the pump-out BOAT will no longer be free. Nobody said the funds had to be allocated to a boat which will come around for our convenience.


I would, however, expect to see more self-pumpout stations and more stringent enforcement that marina's who accept grant money for marina pumput facilities maintain their systems more consistently. (I find far too many marinas telling me "Sorry, the pumpout is broken".).

Shrew,
Most of the funding comes from the EPA Agency(Federal) under the direction of the Clean Water Act, the Federal Waste Pollution Control Act and is administered by various federal/state/local agencies and the Ocean and Coastal Protection Division. Vessel registration funds, if any, would not be capable of funding these extensive programs. The question remains: are the costs of waste pumpout the responsibility of the state/federal/local government or should they be the responsibility of the boater? And, if the individual boater chooses not to use a pumpout because he has to pay, is it his fault or the government's if pollution occurs? Check out this site:water.epa.gov/grants_fun...

[a64pilot]

The whole Government will take care of me thing has gotten way out of hand (in my opinion)

My house burns down, should the government provide me with a place to live? Why is it different if my neighborhood burns, then we all yell FEMA didn't do enough?

No, I should have to pay for everything that keeps me in the life style of my choosing the government should not subsidize my lifestyle.

We have too much government "help" in my opinion now, it seems people are of the opinion that they are entitled to a standard of living, and the government should supply it.

I'm all for free pump outs at Marinas, but to go so far as to have a government contractor to come to my boat and pump out for free, well that's too much really.

[Island Time O25]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The whole Government will take care of me thing has gotten way out of hand (in my opinion)

My house burns down, should the government provide me with a place to live? Why is it different if my neighborhood burns, then we all yell FEMA didn't do enough?

No, I should have to pay for everything that keeps me in the life style of my choosing the government should not subsidize my lifestyle.

We have too much government "help" in my opinion now, it seems people are of the opinion that they are entitled to a standard of living, and the government should supply it.

I'm all for free pump outs at Marinas, but to go so far as to have a government contractor to come to my boat and pump out for free, well that's too much really.

Would you rather have slumlike conditions all around us? We have gov't connecting private houses to public sewer systems. We have gov't building roads and bridges which otherwise would be unaffordable to be built privately or by car owners only. We have gov't making sure the food inside the packaging corresponds to the label outside. And so forth. I'd rather my gov't spend some $$ on pumpouts here in US than on some crazy adventures or projects half way around the globe. Yes the money is tight but let's straighten our priorities and take care of our ecology first before we waste $$ on some foreign adventures.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Island Time O25

Yes the money is tight but let's straighten our priorities and take care of our ecology first before we waste $$ on some foreign adventures.

We are still the wealthiest nation that has ever existed. Money isn't tight, it's being spent on the wrong things.

[zeehag]

had to pay for pumpout in kali---why not in fla--are you guys so speshull that you \\need free\/ get real. sukitup. pay for this service as does everyone else.

[nimblemotors]

The problem here is they pass laws to regulate your discharge and say no worries, we give you free pumpout. Then after the laws pass, they say sorry we can't afford to give you free pumpouts, there will be a small fee.
Then they say sorry we can't run pumpouts, we will privatize it, and then the pumpout fee is really expensive, as the privateers immediately 10x the price and have a monopoly. This is how it works. If they went to pass a law in the beginning that would cost you $100 a week in pumpouts, it would never pass.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by nimblemotors

The problem here is they pass laws to regulate your discharge and say no worries, we give you free pumpout.

Never ever happened.

[hellosailor]

"Should the Florida taxpayer be responsible"

Best joke I've heard all week! ROFLMAO!

Using the words "Florida taxpayer" and "responsible" in the same sentence!

[a64pilot]

See,
This is just an opinion of course, but I think we lived better, in better built houses etc. than now.
I for one just because a bunch of stupid SUV owners wouldn't properly inflate their tires, do not want to have tire inflation sensors in my cars now, but we do, it's a federal mandate, just like 5 mph bumpers were. Remember how successful those were?
No, having to up anchor or untie from a mooring twice a month to pump out is no hardship, in my opinion.
All of this is my opinion of course, but just remember, there is no free lunch, someone pays and the government has never been efficient in managing most programs. Not sure the what 1/2 a Million a yr? was well spent on "free" pump out boats.

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

"Should the Florida taxpayer be responsible"

Best joke I've heard all week! ROFLMAO!

Using the words "Florida taxpayer" and "responsible" in the same sentence!

Can you explain? Thanks.

[BobH260]

The City of Marathon fee schedule ( Pricing | City of Marathon Official Website) indicates the daily dinghy dock, mooring balls fees etc. includes a weekly pump out. It appeared to us it was paid for by the fees. This program has made a big difference in this area. If they needed to increase the fees to cover this I'm sure very few would oppose that. They should probably publish the budget to show how these fees are spent and justify if an increase to pay for pump outs is needed.

It looks like some Florida counties further north were not subsidized and will continue to provide pump out service to boats at anchor, mooring balls or in marinas, Marine Waste Services

Bob

[hellosailor]

Explain? Sure. Flori-DUH (as several of the larger newspapers there refer to it) is not known for rational voting or rational voters. It is not known for spending generously OR wisely, or investing in the quality of life.


For instance, this year Florida came in at FIRST PLACE. Ah, in deaths by drowning while in a car. Something like 50 in the last five years, versus 18 for #2 (Texas) and around 8-9 for each of the next three top runners.


Why do Floridians drown in their cars? Uh, something about the cheap habit of constructing drainage canals alongside roads and highways, where an older population often just slips off the road, inverts in the canal, and drowns.


About 2-3 years ago they also noticed that after spending something like $12m on putting guardrails on the turnpikes, the number of drownings in those areas decreased. (Remember, the FAA puts about a $3.2m value on one American life.)


Wow, yathink? Put guardrails next to highways and canals, and fewer people will drown there?


This year, the problem seems to be that the lead supplier of guardrails changed their design without telling anyone, and folks (cars) are getting impaled instead of sliding along the guardrails.


And a formal statewide investigation of the last 2000 "deaths by police" concluded that in all cases, the cops were totally correct in shooting the civilians. Totally correct. No mistakes. 2000 deaths and never one mistake. You'd have to read up on the many reports of police behavior in Florida to see how extremely odd that might appear to be.


Of course, that's also one of the places where police have arrested folks for little oddities like calling 911 (dozens of times!) to report there wasn't enough cheese on their cheeseburger.


Read some of Carl Hiaasen's novels. You'd swear he was on drugs, but he's a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist who's simply lived in Florida long enough to really know it: A very odd place, compared to the continental US.