Copper Bottom Paint Threat in California

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by zeehag

cs..you can still buy decent stuff in mexico...
comex has paint for boat hulls, btw, and comex is everywhere in mexico.

There's a Comex near me and I've heard mixed results on the bottom paint. I did bring enough of the old 75% copper stuff for one more bottom job. I have no immediate plans to bring "Joli`Elle" back to the US. I thought, if I ever did, it would be to sell her. Nothing I'm entertaining seriously right now. That said, I would be concerned with the market there with boats that require increased maintenance on the bottom. They cost a lot now with yard bills and slip rents on the rise. And knowing how the State makes laws at random than forces marina's to enforce their laws make me just roll my eyes. While everyone is inconvenienced, government just keeps getting larger.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

And knowing how the State makes laws at random than forces marina's to enforce their laws make me just roll my eyes.

What random laws that marinas are forced to enforce would you be referring to?

[Celestialsailor]

Mandatory Insurance, MSD, livaboard restrictions. I am in agreement with these but they put it on the shoulders of the marinas to enforce.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

Mandatory Insurance, MSD, livaboard restrictions. I am in agreement with these but they put it on the shoulders of the marinas to enforce.

In the one breath you bitch about the size of government and in the next complain that businesses are made enforce state regulations. You like the regulations but don't want anybody to make sure they are being followed.

[Celestialsailor]

ya...I'm so bad.

[westwinds]

The Los Angeles Regional Water Quality Control Board (RWQCB) decision can be appealed to the State Water Resources Control Board in Sacramento, perhaps on the grounds of the economic cost or on faulty scientific studies. How the limit is set for copper may be based on assumptions that cannot be thoroughly substantiated because the limit is chosen from the most restrictive study. Also, what is the economic downside to have the copper in the marina? Is the amount of fish etc. lost comparable to the amount of money spent for the cleanup? If appeal to the State Board fails, then it can be appealed to a court of law. There is also appealing to the governor and legislators. The Regional and State Boards are supposed to be autonomous from the governor and legislators; however, someone with the money to get their attention can have an influence on what the Boards do because ultimately, the Boards exist because of legislation.

I think an environmental engineering firm should be hired as they know how to deal with the RWQCB, but it would depend on how aggressive the engineering firm wants to get as some of my suggestions, like going to the legislature and governor, are nuclear options and the engineering firm also has to deal with the RWQCB on other environmental issues. They might be reluctant to antagonize the REQCB too much.

[Celestialsailor]

I just wonder where the funding might come to defeat the proposed law.

[mcm]

I believe it was either Swede or switzerland that did a 10 yr experiment on banning copper bottom paint and discovered the ban did not make any difference and thus reinstated the use of copper bottom paint, maybe someone can source that science and present it to the governing authorities.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by mcm

I believe it was either Swede or switzerland that did a 10 yr experiment on banning copper bottom paint and discovered the ban did not make any difference and thus reinstated the use of copper bottom paint, maybe someone can source that science and present it to the governing authorities.

Yeah, I think we can safely say that Switzerland did not reinstate the use of anti fouling paints.

You're thinking of Australia and New Zealand. Both nations are backing away from their bans on copper-based paints, based on new findings they have come up with.

[fstbttms]

Originally Posted by westwinds

How the limit is set for copper may be based on assumptions that cannot be thoroughly substantiated because the limit is chosen from the most restrictive study.

The limit for copper (and all heavy metals) in state waterways is set by the USEPA. The state and regional water boards are mandated by federal law to bring their waterways into compliance. MdR, Newport Bay, Shelter Island Yacht Basin and many other bodies in California are impaired for copper, based on the EPA criteria. The pressure to reduce copper loading in these waterways is not going to go away.

[mcm]

we are so fortunate to have mind readers on here.....

[westwinds]

Google TMDL litigation, there are a considerable number of lawsuits. Here is a bit of information on that:
Chesapeake Bay TMDL Litigation Overview by a law firm
http://ppc.uaex.edu/conferences/2012...e_Bay_TMDL.pdf

Overview from Congressional Research Service done in September 2012
https://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42752.pdf