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Old 09-12-2015, 10:43   #76
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

Again, that wasn't the question you asked - you are squirming around in this area looking to make your question fit the argument you wish to make.

What right/benefits are transient boaters taking? What rights do people 34 floors up in a condo have regarding their views? If a taller condo goes up right next to them and changes their view to a brick wall, do they have the right to remove it? If they don't like the design of a new building on the skyline, can they get it removed?

This isn't about transients - everyone seems to be concerned about those who stay long-term. It is quite possible that those people are paying taxes to the locality.

I keep making this point to no avail - people are being sucked unawares onto the "side" of those who want to deny boat access by beginning their arguments as a derelict boat situation being a forgone conclusion.

Don't let them arbitrarily dictate the terms, boundaries and direction of the argument - force them to argue from existing terms and boundaries. It is their burden to be on the defensive, not boater's.

Mark
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Old 09-12-2015, 18:20   #77
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

"This isn't about transients - everyone seems to be concerned about those who stay long-term. It is quite possible that those people are paying taxes to the locality.

I keep making this point to no avail - people are being sucked unawares onto the "side" of those who want to deny boat access by beginning their arguments as a derelict boat situation being a forgone conclusion." Colemj


Mark,
Where in any of my responses did I say this was about transient cruisers? The OP's original statement concerned derelict boats and suggestions he could present to city administrators from CF members to solve the conflict. I have stated this previously. To assume that the long term anchorites(excuse the pun) of the derelict vessels are paying taxes is naive at best if you correlate taxes on wages or retail purchases as commensurate with the property taxes paid by landowners. This is patently absurd. They would have to pay sales tax and income tax wherever they lived. I know this area and homeowners easily pay tens of thousands of dollars a month in property taxes to live there and it is not unreasonable for them to want to protect their properties values. I believe you would feel the same way if your property value was threatened or diminished for whatever reason. So, no one has drifted off course. The statements I have presented are clear, concise and easily understood. To transform this discussion into a futile exercise in sophistry is patently absurd and disingenuous to our readers. So, in conclusion, deal with the derelict boats through rigorous enforcement of existing or newly implemented laws, adopt Captain Bill's approach for the rest of us and the problem is solved for all concerned parties. Good luck and good sailing. P.S. As one last remark that is to be taken in general and not personally aimed at anyone: There is an unhealthy mentality among some in Western countries today to demonize those that have wealth and been successful in their lives. Whether it be stated or implied, it debases the freedom of people to pursue their own self-interests and excel based upon their given talents. It seeks to affirm that everyone is the same. It is not true. It is counter-nature. Wealth is an essential ingredient for the success of a nation. It is how America became the greatest superpower in the world. If we lose it, it will lead to our demise. Stop demonizing those who have achieved more than you. Jealousy and envy are destructive to the soul.
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Old 09-12-2015, 19:31   #78
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

Mark, please don't feed the troll
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Old 09-12-2015, 20:10   #79
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

As a proud capitalist, it's hard to believe that all is well with the "free market" when one sees the excesses lining the waterways of south florida.
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Old 10-12-2015, 06:09   #80
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

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Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1 View Post
Mark, please don't feed the troll
Sorry, I seem to keep falling into this trap recently - thinking the contributors are actually making an attempt, only to realize that they only really want to wind things up for whatever personal reasons they have.

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Old 10-12-2015, 06:50   #81
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
There is an unhealthy mentality among some in Western countries today to demonize those that have wealth and been successful in their lives. Whether it be stated or implied, it debases the freedom of people to pursue their own self-interests and excel based upon their given talents. It seeks to affirm that everyone is the same. It is not true. It is counter-nature. Wealth is an essential ingredient for the success of a nation. It is how America became the greatest superpower in the world. If we lose it, it will lead to our demise. Stop demonizing those who have achieved more than you. Jealousy and envy are destructive to the soul.
Normally, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but when the government is clearly being manipulated by money, and becomes hesitant in it's role as a market regulator and objective arbiter, it becomes less about competence and more about someone's thumb being on the scale.

I don't think everyone has the same skills, abilities, or drive, and we need a system that rewards those things. That's different, however, from a system that makes the rich richer at the expense of the people who are actually doing all the work.

There is a natural tendency for the powerful to try and rig the system. We need a government that is strong enough to prevent the system from being rigged. If we're not vigilant, ours may well support making the successful class too small and the dependent class too large, which won't really be good for anyone.

Of course this topic is much to complex to solve in a cruisers forum.
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Old 10-12-2015, 07:23   #82
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

Mark, you don't need to apologize. It was very hard for me not to respond to : how the wealthy and "successful" are demonized. Do you smell something? Oh crap here comes a troll!
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Old 10-12-2015, 07:48   #83
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

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Originally Posted by sparrowhawk1 View Post
Mark, you don't need to apologize. It was very hard for me not to respond to : how the wealthy and "successful" are demonized. Do you smell something? Oh crap here comes a troll!
You forgot the part about them being better than the rest of us
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Old 02-01-2016, 07:25   #84
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City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
Sorry, I seem to keep falling into this trap recently - thinking the contributors are actually making an attempt, only to realize that they only really want to wind things up for whatever personal reasons they have.



Mark
Warning, off topic post...

I'll echo sentiment about no apologies needed. Specifically for me, I come to this forum as I see it as a valued topical resource that contains unique insights from those more experienced than myself. I've found an effective way for me is to scan for posts from a few forum members whom I see as experts, you are one of mine. Wading through hip deep troll crap wastes my time so I don't normally add to it. I understand it is seductive when directly responding to the troll.

Apologies for this latest off topic post.
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