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Old 07-12-2015, 15:12   #31
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

"Aren't there laws regarding impeding public waterways? "
You cannot anchor in or otherwise impede a designated channel on the charts, but if you are just in the water? Yeah, boats are supposed to anchor pretty much in public waters.


Some clever politicos could probably get the USCG to fall back on the "manifestly unsafe for voyage" policy and get the trash confiscated. Except, the USCG doesn't have enough of a budget to launch a fireboat when a bbq gets out of hand. No budget? No operations.


People forget that Miami was founded by rich people who wanted isolation and cheap help, so it was the upper crust and the lower crust, and it is all these middle class foreigners from the continental US and other odd places that are totally RUINING the state by trying to create and serve a middle class. That makes housing too expensive for the poor people, which makes hired help too expensive for the rich people, and creates all sorts of problems that would have never existed if all the damned foreigners hadn't tried to move onto the swampland they bought.


Really, its Miami, and its Flor-i-DUH. The only problems come from those damned middle-class liberals who think taxes should be raised so streets can be paved and sewers installed, magically somehow to work below sea level.
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Old 07-12-2015, 18:33   #32
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

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Originally Posted by DotDun View Post
Maybe a permit for mooring a dinghy at a municipal seawall. Registration along with a fee might deter the vessels they are trying to get rid of.

Daily fee, weekly fee, monthly fee.

I would think that completely blocking upland services, as they are doing now, wouldn't go well at the state legislature in MB's attempt to get special regs for them.
The last thing we need is more fees and fee collectors to be paid. Move the boat a mile and pay another dinghy fee? Nuts. This only works if it is a state fee covering all dinghy day-docking at any public access.
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Old 07-12-2015, 19:47   #33
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

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The last thing we need is more fees and fee collectors to be paid. Move the boat a mile and pay another dinghy fee? Nuts. This only works if it is a state fee covering all dinghy day-docking at any public access.
The discussion here is specifically about the Collins Canal and dinghy access to it - along with suggestions about "parking" fees for using it.

Moving the boat a mile away doesn't change this any, or the fee one would pay to access it.

The Collins Canal is a bit unique in that it winds through South Beach and provides easy access to all of the businesses there, as well as to the public transportation to all other areas of Miami. Some local businesses have actually constructed dinghy secure places just for this.

This issue has nothing at all to do with derelict boats, and the current situation is ham-handed at best in using that as an excuse.

And let's be clear about "derelict boats" - there are already numerous laws to identify and handle this. Anyone who has anchored in South Beach knows that "derelict boats" just do not really exist there. There are a few stationary live-aboards, but almost all of them are in decent enough shape, and most of them actually work in the area.

The vast, vast majority of boats there are cruisers passing through on well-found boats looking to resupply and wait for weather to move onto further destinations. It is (was) a fantastic place to do this, while spending lots of money in what was a great city and surrounding area.

This should not be confused or conflated with some generally nebulous "Florida derelict bum boat" issue.

It has nothing at all to do with that.

Mark
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Old 07-12-2015, 20:16   #34
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

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The last thing we need is more fees and fee collectors to be paid. Move the boat a mile and pay another dinghy fee? Nuts. This only works if it is a state fee covering all dinghy day-docking at any public access.
It doesn't matter what a cruiser perceives they 'need'. The locals control the land above the high water line. As of now, you cannot land your dinghy on MB control property. The OP asked for suggestions for discussion with a MB commissioner in an attempt to negotiate a way for this to change.

What is your suggestion?
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Old 07-12-2015, 22:07   #35
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

seems to me the storms sorta weed it out ...lotta houseboats on the canal, yea there paying rent, but hardly a seaworthy vessel, just an eyesore, just like the thousands of highrises across the street...i remember when there were just beach bars , bon fires, beach shacks and lots of brown eyed girls. Ok that was Madeira Beach in the 70s...haha....point is If I anchor a half million dollar boat and come ashore to spend money which is hard not to do they should have a welcome mat not a parking fee besides they make millions in property taxes from those eyesores...and where is that money?
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Old 07-12-2015, 23:02   #36
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

" The OP asked for suggestions for discussion with a MB commissioner in an attempt to negotiate a way for this to change.

What is your suggestion?"


Politicians prefer to make deals, but one might also look for organizational backing to take them to court and make them look like fools--which they do not like to be cast as.


Perhaps a case could be made that "If people can't access this land from the water side, OK, they shouldn't be able to access it from the land side either. No parking lots, they create oil leaks, gasoline leaks, polluted rainwater run-off. No foot access, it creates the same problems as people stepping up off dinghies. "


Just remind them they if they want "protection" you want "parity" and that just might not make them happy either.


Not to threaten them, but to give them an incentive to save face, and legal fees. Unless you can convince them that you're going to spend so much money at the local shops, that they'd be angering the local businesses by cutting you out.
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Old 07-12-2015, 23:47   #37
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

thanks mark...i agree ....mute ....about fees and such...everyone wants your money and lifes 2 short 2 change that...haha....hellosailer u must be a lawyer....not...first off whats the question in the first place...all I see is a credible response no first message....hey life is what it is....go to mexico and not pay the kid that says he will watch ur jeep....good luck
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Old 08-12-2015, 00:03   #38
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

wow 35 posts and I overextended my stay....kazzzillions ????ever have time 2 sail????
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Old 08-12-2015, 00:30   #39
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

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Originally Posted by colemj View Post
The discussion here is specifically about the Collins Canal and dinghy access to it - along with suggestions about "parking" fees for using it.

Moving the boat a mile away doesn't change this any, or the fee one would pay to access it.

The Collins Canal is a bit unique in that it winds through South Beach and provides easy access to all of the businesses there, as well as to the public transportation to all other areas of Miami. Some local businesses have actually constructed dinghy secure places just for this.

This issue has nothing at all to do with derelict boats, and the current situation is ham-handed at best in using that as an excuse.

And let's be clear about "derelict boats" - there are already numerous laws to identify and handle this. Anyone who has anchored in South Beach knows that "derelict boats" just do not really exist there. There are a few stationary live-aboards, but almost all of them are in decent enough shape, and most of them actually work in the area.

The vast, vast majority of boats there are cruisers passing through on well-found boats looking to resupply and wait for weather to move onto further destinations. It is (was) a fantastic place to do this, while spending lots of money in what was a great city and surrounding area.

This should not be confused or conflated with some generally nebulous "Florida derelict bum boat" issue.

It has nothing at all to do with that.

Mark
Thanks for the clarification. I didn't understand this from the original post in this thread.
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:15   #40
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

hey tom maybe u could post ur original email to these people so we could maybe find out what your intentions are...ur in ne not in miami with a 58ft powerboat???? what the hell u care dont get it...i sure as hell dont
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Old 08-12-2015, 04:49   #41
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

Time linits are a good idea but 3 days? This fall has seen non stop high winds out of the NE. Not good for moving and certainly not good for crossing. 30 days should be the minimum with an easily permitted 30 day extension.


Last week I noticed a group of about 4 sleeping overnight (camping?) in the park in Miami Beach for several days. Cops went right by them without issue. Hmmm
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Old 08-12-2015, 07:06   #42
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

We definitely come into the cruising, rather than stationary livaboard category, though health problems saw us anchored off South Beach for almost two months during June/July; fortunately for us, these landing restrictions didn't come in until shortly after we'd left. Though I guess we could still claim to have been 'moving' as that two month stay was broken-up by ICW passages and short stays in Ft Lauderdale, Biscayne and a few days across at the yacht club.

I presume you can still land a dinghy at the private YC dinghy dock half-way along the Causeway? Also, what about the dinghy pontoon across from the Publix supermarket half-way up the Collins Canal? I understood that the installation/maintenance of that, including the gate through to the highway is paid for by the Publix Store; surely then, that's not therefore 'owned' by Miami Beach?

Having sailed the US east coast from Florida to Maine and back again, we've been charged for dinghy landing in many locations - some more reasonably priced than others - so I don't see a problem in MBeach levying charges. We've also seen far bigger fields of stationary livaboard boats and also much more dilapidated fleets of them too; I guess that if I owned one of the cute apartments overlooking the anchorage, I too probably wouldn't be overjoyed to look out over the worst of them every day either, but I wouldn't expect that buying one of those apartments guaranteed me a cute view either; surely some at least of those boats would have been there before the apartment blocks were built? In that case, you knew what the view was before you bought it and moved in and have no right to subsequently complain about the view.

However, I don't think it's unreasonable of those shore-side residents to require that the floating community make their contribution to the MBeach economy. To my mind liveaboard/cruising boats are 'visitors' just the same as in any other walk of life: If friends wanted to visit and stay on our boat for two or three weeks, we would consider them to be 'guests' and not expect them to pay for their visit - of course a case of beer's always welcome. If they wish to stay for two or three months, then I'd consider them temporary residents and expect them to contribute toward the cost of maintaining the boat during their visit. However, if they want to stay for two or three years, then they're permanent residents and need to buy their own boat. I don't consider those to be unreasonable expectations, nor do I think that a similar expectation by the residents of Miami - whose taxes are maintaining the city - should be deemed unreasonable.

If you anchor-off Miami Beach, or indeed any city/town for more than a month and are not making a financial contribution to the maintenance of that town/city, then you're overstaying your welcome as 'a guest' and you are now a resident irrespective of whether you're living aboard a $1000-junker or a million dollar gin-palace and should be contributing to the cost of maintaining what's now 'your' hometown. Claiming that we 'contribute to the local economy' by using the local bars/stores/restauarants doesn't cut it - the shoreside residents do that too and are also paying taxes to support the parks, highways, police, fire, etc. depts. too; if we're anchoring off a town for extended periods, we ought to pay our share.

The same medical problem saw us moored-up off Titusville too, where you had the choice of a sensibly priced municipal marina, some very reasonably priced mooring buoys or use your own anchor for free and pay a 'landing-fee' whenever you came ashore by dinghy. I'm assuming hat the city makes a profit on these facilities, which contributes to the cost of running and maintaining the city's services and suggest Miami Beach could do similar.

With regard to the 'junk yard boats', I would enquire - I'm a Brit so don't know - as to whether there's a requirement in Miami, or indeed other towns in the USA, that you maintain your property to a certain visual standard? If yes, than I guess it's not unreasonable to apply similar requirements to long-term resident boats, however, if this is not the case, then I don't see it as 'fair' to say you can live in a semi-derelict house, but not a semi-derelict boat.

One of the attractions or at least bonuses of living aboard a sailboat (for us anyway) is that it's a very economic lifestyle; we're all on a budget of some sort and ours is probably below the average, but we still don't believe that our lifestyle choice entitles us to 'a free ride'.
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Old 08-12-2015, 10:29   #43
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

"The discussion here is specifically about the Collins Canal and dinghy access to it - along with suggestions about "parking" fees for using it." Colemj

Mark,
The OP's initial remarks stated "I am against derelict boats being used as liveaboards in front of private property" and wanted some suggestions from CF members to present to the city commissioner to circumvent unfair anchoring restrictions for cruisers. Did we get sidetracked?
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:30   #44
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

No, ric, if I was a lawyer I'd give you practical advice. Set the commissioner up with a whore, get a nice set of photo's printed up, and ask him the change his vote. That pretty much always works, regardless of the issues.


Commissioners do:
1-What is best for their careers
1A-What keeps them out of jail
1B-What pads their pockets best.


1 is decided by, and already includes, any ego issue they have.
Someguy on a boat, with no voting rights, no heavy tax burden, and having made no major contributions to both political parties, ain't gonna get much by saying "That's not nice."
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Old 08-12-2015, 12:05   #45
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Re: City Commissioner response to Collins Canal in Miami Beach

I know you folks are having a good time discussing this. But the OP is MIA and also has some interesting statistics..............
Join date 2004, only has one post...........

Something seems funky............
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