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Old 05-04-2015, 12:52   #121
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

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Originally Posted by jongleur View Post
Does anybody remember reading the book
about a trimaran called "Trinity" which
capsized off northern California with 3
people on it. Only 2 of them survived
to be rescued, then only one survived
soon after rescue?

I'm sure it was in Dewey Decimal System
910.2.

Yes, this is germane to the topic.
Yes I read the story but if I remember right it is now a pretty old book which I read in the early 80s because my friends had trimarans and were always trying to convince me of their superiority.
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Old 05-04-2015, 13:11   #122
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
If we don't wake up and do something proactive to stop these ridiculous adventures made by those who are clearly incompetent, we are going to be inundated with government regulations that will surely create unnecessary obstacles to serious, competent sailors who desire to head offshore. This is another example of a group of people in our society who "want it and want it now" irrespective of any skills or ownership of a competent well found boat as Geek mentioned in a previous post.(Did I mentioned "competent" enough times?
When is this going to stop?
So what are "We" to do to stop it?
You have to have an inspection and license to take a boat out of the harbor?
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Old 05-04-2015, 13:17   #123
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
I just viewed the video interview of the "lost sailor" posted by Maine Sail. A few choice lines by the sailor in the video follow were:
1. He attempted to "raise a mast" on the boat. Did he have a bucket
truck available?

2. He referred to the "lines that hold the mast to the boat," that were
like "guy wires on a radio tower."

3. And, in his creative will to survive he was going to make a
"jerry mast" and a "jerry rudder." Who the hell is Jerry?

4. And since the fish just "went away," in his home base he thought he would go out to the warmer waters of the Gulf Stream to catch fish even
though the weather report "wasn't good" but he "judged the
weather by the skies." So, he went offshore because you'll
never be a good sailor unless you go "offshore." To sail or fish?

Look, boys and girls. This is another sad example in a long list of obviously incompetent people who throw all caution to the wind and rely on the CG to save them from their pathetic endeavors. If we don't wake up and do something proactive to stop these ridiculous adventures made by those who are clearly incompetent, we are going to be inundated with government regulations that will surely create unnecessary obstacles to serious, competent sailors who desire to head offshore. This is another example of a group of people in our society who "want it and want it now" irrespective of any skills or ownership of a competent well found boat as Geek mentioned in a previous post.(Did I mentioned "competent" enough times?
When is this going to stop?
It is pretty easy to ridicule others who have less sailing experience and less experience trying to explain to journalists who know nothing about sailboats. Jerry rig is used a lot by WWII vets after they returned from war. It might be spelled Gerry though. You can determine for yourself why. It seems to me if you were explaining to someone who knows nothing, like a journalist, how a mast is held up that you might use the term wires like on a radio tower.

He used good judgment cutting away his mast and boom, had a broken shoulder and would have had a hard time doing anything in that condition.

Most of us here on CF weren't born with extensive sailing knowledge and weren't able to afford a sailing vessel in superior condition for our first boat.

Stuff happens and sometimes good luck will bring us through. This guy has survived this bad experience. I just hope he can survive all the criticism in as good condition.

And I hope the "just do it!" crowd here has learned a bit by reading these posts.
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Old 05-04-2015, 13:29   #124
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

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Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
This guy has survived this bad experience. I just hope he can survive all the criticism in as good condition.

And I hope the "just do it!" crowd here has learned a bit by reading these posts.
The one thing you can count on is that the CF judges of seamanship will always be out in full force anytime a fellow cruiser/boater has a bad day. We see it almost every time as we eat our own and its just as sad every time...but it is human nasty nature, so here it is.
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Old 05-04-2015, 13:43   #125
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

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The one thing you can count on is that the CF judges of seamanship will always be out in full force anytime a fellow cruiser/boater has a bad day. We see it almost every time as we eat our own and its just as sad every time...but it is human nasty nature, so here it is.
Have you ever experienced watching sailboats passing a beachfront yachtclub bar and hearing the comments from the customers about the sailing ability of the skippers? How about watching a boat launch ramp in early summer and hearing the snipers comment about boat, crew, rigging, etc.?

Amazing isn't it?
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Old 05-04-2015, 13:46   #126
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

Obviously a story of the loss of a sailboat or some kind of mishap or incident requiring rescue or abandonment of a boat will draw comments from many points of view and types of comments too (some critical, some apologetic, some reasonable, some questioning, some dogmatic).

I know posting this may luff some sails here, but…

I think any sailor who survives the capsizing of a keel boat multiple times offshore deserves a "glad you survived" from a community of sailors.

I think any sailor who survives while adrift for many days offshore deserves a "glad you survived" from a community of sailors.

I think any sailor who survives months offshore on meager food and water, deserves a "glad you survived" from a community of sailors.

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I hope the discussion of the loss of the boat "Angel" can be continued in a way that is helpful to others.
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Old 05-04-2015, 14:03   #127
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

Nothing sounds right about this story. First, there is no clear photo yet released of the vessel at the rescue scene. Reportedly it was inverted. After a knockdown and loss of the mast, unless the keel falls off, the yacht will regain stability and float upright. There has not been an interview made public which poses key questions any knowledgeable yachty would ask: How much sail was up with the sailor huddled below during the storm? How did water ingress? Was the companion way left open? Hatches? Why could the engine not be started. Was he in the Gulf Stream or Inshore waters? Did the broken mast make a hole in the hull?

What really happened? Too bad all of the interviews made public have been conducted by those who evince little if any knowledge of sailing or of the marine environment. Jordan needs to be knowledgeably questioned if his credibility is to stand.

As a circumnavigator I can say that Jordan's experience and story thus far does not ring true
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Old 05-04-2015, 14:06   #128
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

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Originally Posted by LakeSuperior View Post
I can still tell black from white/fools and idiots from measured adult thinking. So why not tell it like it is. There is no relativism or ambiguity in play here.

Rognvald, perhaps we should look at some sort of self policing in the cruising community much like what the diving/caving community has put in place to avoid entanglement with big brother. The diving community approach has been extremely successful for 60 years or so.
Conceptually a very good idea. Realistically?

Unless one knows the skipper involved, how do you stop him from going out? How do you know if he's going for fuel, going to anchor out, going to next marina or foolishly (in your mind) going offshore in January.

I would be less than pleased if I was asked for a (daily) float plan by my (mostly never show up anyway) dock mates. I'm there and out sailing 1,000% and more than all of them put together.

Do they ask for your "credentials" when you get on the ski lift that has the skull & crossbones that says "Experts Only!"?

Overreacting to one man's stupidity is not very helpful.

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**************

ASA Bashing

Why? They teach how to sail a boat.

You want to learn navigation & weather? Consider a different course.

Or buy and read a couple of BOOKS.:ban ghead:

Oops, sorry, not supposed to say that...but still have no idea why.
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Old 05-04-2015, 14:12   #129
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

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Overreacting to one man's stupidity is not very helpful..
No but it is the American way....look how we reacted to the terrorist attacks on 9/11!
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Old 05-04-2015, 14:21   #130
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

You say "tomahto," I say "tomato." Or: When nautical terms may be mistaken or misspoken and still understood.

I don't think any new sailor, especially one who has described himself as inexperienced or new, who is being interviewed for TV, should be criticized harshly for using nautical terms incorrectly (as they may be under pressure, nervous, or possibly misspoke).

I can also understand if a more experienced sailor chose to use an alternate word for a term or phrasing something in ways that may make more sense to a landsman or reporter.

While "proper" use of nautical terms is helpful because some have precise meanings, it is also true that some sailors call things by various names and frequently new sailors will use terms that make sense to them (and perhaps to others) without knowing the accurate term or precise use of a term.

Also, the distinctions between a "rope" and a "line" and a "rode" and a "hawser" on a boat may be lost on a reporter or even on a large general audience. To the general public, those things on a boat are all "rope."

I don't think a new sailor's use of a sailing term by an alternate name should be harshly criticized if the listener understands the meaning due to context.

We all have idioms or ways of using language. One person's "Jury rigged" could be known as another's "Jerry rigged." Or a spanner may be a wrench. A "soda" may be a "pop" or a "coke" to another. Just as one person's "submarine sandwich" may be called a "growler" or "hoagie" by another person. In context, they can be understood.

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So, as I see it, the unfortunate and inexperienced new sailor Louis Jordan (owner of the yacht Angel), should be given some "slack" or "leeway," regarding his use of language on an interview on television, especially when he is interviewed, and most especially shortly after a rescue, as his use of sailing terms may be the best he knows at that time or what he knows with familiarity.

Respectfully submitted to the experts, whether they be newbies or salties, on this forum.
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Old 05-04-2015, 14:25   #131
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

Has anyone who has corresponded with him on this forum sent a PM to him?
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Old 05-04-2015, 14:51   #132
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

Sure, we wish anybody going out there good luck and we are happy to see them return in one piece.

That being said, some common sense should be involved. In the US you can do stupid things, land of the free and all.
Some people however should not be allowed to make decisions on their own, like buying guns without a psycho test, or a boat that could could kill them or put rescuers in harms way trying to save them.
A minimum of supervision and quality control should be required if individuals are not capable of looking after themselfs.
Vehicle accidents in the US kills about 30,000 people per year.
To save life's we could tighten the standards and require an IQ test with the drivers Licencse.
It would save 10s or thousand lives per year. But uh, it would hurt the automobile industry so we would rather have our friends and family killed in droves to be "Free".
Same with boats, all you need is credit card to buy and operate a 100' Mega Yacht, training and accidents be damned.
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Old 05-04-2015, 14:51   #133
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

We can all make poor judgements based on our own experience or our own bias or taste or view or lack of knowledge.

I am glad that someone posted the photos showing the sailor Louis Jordan with very short hair (buzz cut). That clearly shows that an assumption based on a single photo of the same man hours after his rescue can be wrong.

I made the statement that the rescued man's short hair was a surprise to me, because I assumed something based on my POV and my own experience (i.e. that MY hair would have been longer and shaggy after 66 days without a hair cut).

When I posted my observation about hair length earlier in this thread, I did so with some amusement (at myself), because I think I would have looked a lot worse after 64 days of meager rations and little water. I was honestly surprised that he looked so good. So, I chuckle at myself, not at the survivor.

I know after I came off a boat after 30 days and nights nonstop on a moving boat on the Pacific ocean, I looked scruffy, smelled more than usual, and walked like a drunken sailor when I first got on terra firma. The motion of the ocean lasted a long time with me, and it was funny to feel the solid land moving beneath my feet.

Lessons from this?

Don't be misled by one's own experience to think everyone will experience the same.
Don't expect a single photo to tell a story.
Don't let the length of a person's hair matter.
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Old 05-04-2015, 15:08   #134
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

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Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
You say "tomahto," I say "tomato." Or: When nautical terms may be mistaken or misspoken and still understood.

I don't think any new sailor, especially one who has described himself as inexperienced or new, who is being interviewed for TV, should be criticized harshly for using nautical terms incorrectly (as they may be under pressure, nervous, or possibly misspoke).

I can also understand if a more experienced sailor chose to use an alternate word for a term or phrasing something in ways that may make more sense to a landsman or reporter.

While "proper" use of nautical terms is helpful because some have precise meanings, it is also true that some sailors call things by various names and frequently new sailors will use terms that make sense to them (and perhaps to others) without knowing the accurate term or precise use of a term.

Also, the distinctions between a "rope" and a "line" and a "rode" and a "hawser" on a boat may be lost on a reporter or even on a large general audience. To the general public, those things on a boat are all "rope."

I don't think a new sailor's use of a sailing term by an alternate name should be harshly criticized if the listener understands the meaning due to context.

We all have idioms or ways of using language. One person's "Jury rigged" could be known as another's "Jerry rigged." Or a spanner may be a wrench. A "soda" may be a "pop" or a "coke" to another. Just as one person's "submarine sandwich" may be called a "growler" or "hoagie" by another person. In context, they can be understood.

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So, as I see it, the unfortunate and inexperienced new sailor Louis Jordan (owner of the yacht Angel), should be given some "slack" or "leeway," regarding his use of language on an interview on television, especially when he is interviewed, and most especially shortly after a rescue, as his use of sailing terms may be the best he knows at that time or what he knows with familiarity.

Respectfully submitted to the experts, whether they be newbies or salties, on this forum.
I understand what you are trying to say regarding the new sailor, and giving him a break on his terms is nice and compassionate. But, the terms are for purpose and have been developed over the years to distinguish the parts of the boat and reduce the amount of communication necessary to give and adhere to an order. Especially when it is given under stress of emergency. I keep an old copy of 'Royce's seamanship and sailing' in the salon to allow newbie's on my boat to learn what I am saying to them. I know I'm anal so save your posts, but I cringe when someone says, "I'm going downstairs and close the window". I don't think the vocabulary is in the top ten things you need to know before venturing into the Gulf Stream in the Northeast, in January, but if you knew the top ten things you should know, then you would pick up a lot of terms along the path of that learning process, and not look stupid among your peers.

I would bet the Jordan will lament for sometime on his experience. If he writes a book, I probably won't read it because it would be torture.
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Old 05-04-2015, 15:19   #135
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Re: CF Member Rescued After Being Lost at Sea For 66 Days-Merged

Amen, if you have to explain it in the first place, it may be too late
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