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Old 26-11-2016, 06:47   #76
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Or your wife is sicilian. On The Godfather, they say the women from Sicily are more dangerous than a shotgun
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Old 26-11-2016, 06:49   #77
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Many Sadler models were 'unsinkable' also.. another good builder eliminated by the production line.
Many small fast offshore cruisers are unsinkable and some bigger ones too, like the Pogo. An unsinkable boat (along a very good stability and other very good performance regarding safety) allows small boats to pass Class A certification in what regards minimum stability and safety criteria.

Regarding approval on class A monohulls can pass those safety minimums with a considerably smaller size than multihulls.

Here one of the smallest certified on class A, a very light and fast one too. This one is making a circumnavigation (Django 7.70).


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Old 26-11-2016, 07:06   #78
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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If concerned about sinking or a capsize, preventative measures can be taken, especially on older smaller fiberglass boats. We compartmented 95% of the hull below the waterline, adding structure in the event of collision, and bouyancy and isolations in the event of a flooding. All hatches and vents can be made watertight, even the companionway. All thru hulls can be isolated to individual watertight lockers. Details are below. All of these projects took about 6 months.

Brian

https://sailingdawntreader.com/2015/...-companionway/

https://sailingdawntreader.com/2016/...ckpit-lockers/

https://sailingdawntreader.com/2015/08/09/v-berth/

https://sailingdawntreader.com/2016/...r-tank-part-2/

https://sailingdawntreader.com/2015/08/09/vents/

https://sailingdawntreader.com/2015/...forward-hatch/

https://sailingdawntreader.com/2016/...t-sink-galley/

https://sailingdawntreader.com/2016/...ation-station/

Brian,
You two have done a lot of great improvements to your boat, making it more seaworthy and safe. An admirable job (and blog). Thanks for sharing what you two have done.
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Old 26-11-2016, 07:50   #79
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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Check the through hull keel bolts on a mono . If the keel comes off, the hull will capsize then sink , unless you get lucky😑
Although this is a brilliant suggestion, it is also impossible.

You can check the nuts securing the keel bolts in the bilge, but that's all that's visible. The bulk of the keel bolts are embedded in lead and thick fiberglass. If water has seeped into the gap and rotted the bolts at the join, there is no way to inspect this...unless you drop the keel...and that inspection would easily cost more than the value of the boat, in most cases.

I have not heard of any cases of keel bolt failure...yet.
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Old 26-11-2016, 08:29   #80
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

If crossing oceans I agree sinking scarier. But for near shore or inshore the thought of capsizing a cat in a squall is scarier- seems more likely to be life threatening given sudden nature and possibility of being trapped. Sinking in near shore offshore probably likely to drown you. But of course flipping cat less likely to happen. Unless it's a performance cat which I would favor though if I were to buy one


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Old 26-11-2016, 10:15   #81
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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Originally Posted by Polux View Post
Many small fast offshore cruisers are unsinkable and some bigger ones too, like the Pogo. An unsinkable boat (along a very good stability and other very good performance regarding safety) allows small boats to pass Class A certification in what regards minimum stability and safety criteria.

Regarding approval on class A monohulls can pass those safety minimums with a considerably smaller size than multihulls.

Here one of the smallest certified on class A, a very light and fast one too. This one is making a circumnavigation (Django 7.70).


Thanks for posting the photo and video and your comment. I enjoyed seeing that. Looks like a cool boat. Simple inside and interesting.
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Old 26-11-2016, 10:19   #82
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

An interesting looking boat, but definitely one you do NOT want to be sailing through the Florida keys during lobster/crab trap season lol.
Arguably as bad as my cat (or worse).
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Old 26-11-2016, 11:52   #83
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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An interesting looking boat, but definitely one you do NOT want to be sailing through the Florida keys during lobster/crab trap season lol.
Arguably as bad as my cat (or worse).
Eat tails every night while clearing warps.
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Old 26-11-2016, 20:18   #84
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

One of the problems when reading this forum is it can make people more fearful than they should be. Failures get much more attention than successes.

My number one fear is always loosing the mast, and then it possibly holing the boat, tearing off one of my rudders, or props. I've thought a lot about how to get the mast either off the boat or stabilized. My second fear would be the loss of a rudder in heavy weather where steerage can't be fixed. Third would be fire followed by major crew injury, crew overboard, breaking waves that cause catastrophic hull damage, reefs, etc. Capsize isn't a fear at all and sinking just because a through hull failed or I hit something is not high.
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Old 26-11-2016, 20:31   #85
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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Or your wife is sicilian. On The Godfather, they say the women from Sicily are more dangerous than a shotgun
My ex-wife was Corsican. The authorities in Sicily send the bad girls to Corsica where they fit right in...

Jim
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Old 26-11-2016, 22:04   #86
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Interesting that the general consensus seams to be that only monohulls have rotten seacocks.

I guess if I ever put together a pro/con list I will have to include that:
. Impervious Seacocks on Cats
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Old 27-11-2016, 02:50   #87
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

My biggest fear would be to ever have allowed "Fear" to control me.

However, as a paid mariner for most of my life, ....I like to think of myself as a "professional pessimist", when preparing vessel and crew for a long and potentially dangerous passage.

When working, most of my dreams involve solving emergencies, whether physical or psychological.

When the real thing happens (as it has), things slow down and my perpetration and training takes over.
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Old 27-11-2016, 07:03   #88
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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Improperly tightened pack gland nut.

I was delivering solo for owner from Mystic to Newport. She had just left the yard. Off Point Judith noticed floorboards floating! Got her pumped down by bilge and hand and found water pouring in from shaft log.

Packing nut had stripped and could go back on. Pretty sure gland packing exited as well. It was a lot of water.

Turned around and headed back to Mystic pumping and navigating in fog. Had yard stage the travel lift and pulled right in and up.

One armed paper hanger. The whale pump made the difference. That was a long time ago :-)
This reason could sink a Cat as well.

A well found and set up steel mono is hard boat to sink when well crewed and batten down and ready for it, with a device for slowing her down.
Screw in bungs for the dorade vents, small bronze ports, inside locks on sliding hatches which is the only water ingress, which should only happen for a short amount of time if she happens to capsize. The problem is been thrown around violently and this sort of can be over come with webbing joining to the lee cloths and hopefully you do not have get out of your bunk for any adjustments.

A Cats crew will have a much better time of it in big waves with sails down and boards up until the waves get to big like the Sydney to Hobart disaster size.

Having everything very well secured and with cocks on fuel and water tank vents, pump out bilge and if you still have a rig, sail away, if not jury. better than sitting on an up turned hull in my book.
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Old 27-11-2016, 07:21   #89
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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One of the problems when reading this forum is it can make people more fearful than they should be. Failures get much more attention than successes. (...)
I think this is not CF specific. I think this is how our brains are wired to survive.

In this respect, we benefit more from failures, as long as these are not ultimate.

b.
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Old 27-11-2016, 17:28   #90
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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Because once they get water inside, they have a big lump of lead hanging there trying to drag them down?
No,
because 99% of them have no reserve buoyancy. They can and have been built unsinkable.
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