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Old 25-11-2016, 12:07   #46
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Not afraid of sinking, particularly, I am, however afraid of drowning/suffocating, dying from hypothermia and not being able to breathe. Mono won't stay capsized, and will pop back up. Then it's going to be a real drag to clean up the mess. Water will come in, and it will be scary. But mostly, I don't think about it, and take precautions in bad weather.

I do think it would be hard to stay on a capsized catamaran with waves breaking onto it. You would want to be able to extract the liferaft and be able to get in from the unstable water. From pictures I've seen, I've noticed that they don't always lie flat like a pancake, sometimes they are down on one side or fore or aft. The boat's basically destroyed pretty quick, a total loss whether or not it sinks. Staying alive in a capsize event vs. a sinking, as long as your in the air pocket, you've a few more breaths, and then---back to hypothermia and drowning.

I don't worry about sharks. I know they're around, and might eat me, but it just might be "better" to die from shock and blood loss and not aware of drowning.

Maybe I've had too many long night watches!
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Old 25-11-2016, 12:07   #47
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

"not to have either choice" can be interpreted two ways......
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Old 25-11-2016, 13:16   #48
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Clearly sinking is my bigger fear.
Capsized you can hopefully still hang on to something.

BTW. A liferaft makes sense on monos and multis.
Ever heard of fire?
Since centuries the third in this row of sailors fears!
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:08   #49
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

I've never worried about capsize...ever.

When its blowing hard, I worry about losing the mast. A failure in a turnbuckle or fitting..and snap...thar she goes. I inspect my fittings regularly, but you can't see inside the metal. I worry about sinking. One bad through-hull, or a split hose on a rough day. It doesn't take a very big hole to overtake the electric bilge pump. My pearson30 had cockpit drain hoses/tubes with no seacocks (original design, they are all like that).

I should mention that my last boat was over 40 years old (1974), and most of my boats were from the early 70's. I inspect and test whatever I can, but like I said, you just can't see inside, and replacing everything would far exceed the value of these old boats. On the other hand, I sail on Lake Ontario, and a sinking would be quite survivable, especially if I could get a mayday out real quick. No part of the lake is more than an hour away from a high speed coast guard vessel, and the water is usually warm enough to survive. However, when the wind blows, it can be pretty rough. Steep waves. 3-5 metre seas are not uncommon, and I've been out in more...enough to scare the crap out of the wife, and toss everything out of every locker below.

I also worry about the rudder snapping off, the engine quitting when I need it most, and the sails shredding...but thats because all these things have actually happened to me. And you know what...I recovered from all of em without too much fuss or expense.

When you get in a car on the highway do you worry about being in a crash?

Sure these bad things can happen. You could slip and die in the bathroom tonight! So you take reasonable precautions, and you live your life. In 2010 I took a flight across the atlantic and sailed back with a bunch of strangers. I think the most dangerous part of the trip...was the drive to the airport.
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:12   #50
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Sailing to weather on a level plane doesn't feel like sailing to me.
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:18   #51
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

@Markpierce

Guess you missed the point of this thread.
Read the first post...
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:30   #52
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

There are so many variables it is a moot point.
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:35   #53
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Sinking greater fear than capsize. I've been on a sinking Hans Christain 47, witnessed a bunch during coast guard days, choose 50' Cat for Pacific crossing and this, among many other factors was a major reason.

The probability of flipping a large cruising (not racing but cruising) multihull is infinitesimally small. Even if you manage to it won't sink.

Mono will drop out from under you in minutes. Life rafts suck. Not trying to make this a mono vs multi deal. Just the facts vs the feels (and we own a 40' mono now) :-)
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Old 25-11-2016, 14:38   #54
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Quote:
Originally Posted by akprb View Post
Sinking greater fear than capsize. I've been on a sinking Hans Christain 47, witnessed a bunch during coast guard days, choose 50' Cat for Pacific crossing and this, among many other factors was a major reason.

The probability of flipping a large cruising (not racing but cruising) multihull is infinitesimally small. Even if you manage to it won't sink.

Mono will drop out from under you in minutes. Life rafts suck. Not trying to make this a mono vs multi deal. Just the facts vs the feels (and we own a 40' mono now) :-)
Curious what sank the Hans Christian?
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Old 25-11-2016, 15:06   #55
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Improperly tightened pack gland nut.

I was delivering solo for owner from Mystic to Newport. She had just left the yard. Off Point Judith noticed floorboards floating! Got her pumped down by bilge and hand and found water pouring in from shaft log.

Packing nut had stripped and could go back on. Pretty sure gland packing exited as well. It was a lot of water.

Turned around and headed back to Mystic pumping and navigating in fog. Had yard stage the travel lift and pulled right in and up.

One armed paper hanger. The whale pump made the difference. That was a long time ago :-)
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Old 25-11-2016, 15:18   #56
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emouchet View Post
What about fire ?

I cannot remember where I read that (I think it was on a french forum), but it seems there are more boat sinking because of on board fire than seacock failure or water ingress from other source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
Clearly sinking is my bigger fear.
Capsized you can hopefully still hang on to something.

BTW. A liferaft makes sense on monos and multis.
Ever heard of fire?
Since centuries the third in this row of sailors fears!
YES, fire is a big deal whether mono pr multi. And, once a GRP fire gets out of control is VERY hard to stop. If offshore you are in deep dodo.

A good reason to have a liferaft.
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Old 25-11-2016, 15:24   #57
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Quote:
Originally Posted by hamburking View Post
...

When you get in a car on the highway do you worry about being in a crash?

Sure these bad things can happen. You could slip and die in the bathroom tonight! So you take reasonable precautions, and you live your life. In 2010 I took a flight across the atlantic and sailed back with a bunch of strangers. I think the most dangerous part of the trip...was the drive to the airport.
But, this is clearly not a question about rational fear, but about individual's subjective perception.

Some time ago a cruiser who had done some work with NTSB crunched numbers on mono versus multi loses and posted them. The end result was essentially equal. So, there is no rational reason to be more fearful of one event than the other, yet people are.
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Old 25-11-2016, 15:25   #58
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franziska View Post
@Markpierce

Guess you missed the point of this thread.
Read the first post...
Think leaning versus rolling over.
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Old 25-11-2016, 15:26   #59
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Sailing to weather on a level plane doesn't feel like sailing to me.
Get a tri then, and fly to weather a few meters up in air!
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Old 25-11-2016, 15:44   #60
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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