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Old 25-11-2016, 09:47   #31
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Yeah, but which one keeps you awake off watch?
Takes me a week to start having decent sleeps but it's not something I worry about. Driving a car at high speed and having your steering ball joints separate would not be a good experience but I don't worry about it when I'm driving. By the way I had a stored car come apart on one wheel when the joint corroded. I don't worry about my keel dropping off or having a heart attack when I'm on the fore-deck in the middle of the night so I sure don't worry about the boat sinking however when a big fin back whale breached about 10 feet off our bow in the middle of the pacific it did cause me to day dream about owning a metal boat for the better part of 3 days. I worry about money and my kids but not the boat.
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Old 25-11-2016, 09:48   #32
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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*** Preface: this is NOT a multi vs mono thread, please don't turn it into one, but a pyschological inquiry. ***


The recent capsize of an Atlantic 57 and the sinking of a monohull in the ARC got me to thinking about the fear levels of individuals relative to sinking vs capsize.

For example, I had friends shopping for boats, their fear of capsize on a cat drove them to buy a monohull.
WADR, didn't you just do that?
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Old 25-11-2016, 09:49   #33
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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Cat, mono, power boat, ocean kayak, etc...
I don't care about sinking any old way...it's the sharks that bother me !!!
I agree. Even though I now know that cows are the real killers.
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Old 25-11-2016, 09:54   #34
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

Focusing in on either will not help, you just have to get out there and sail. Pay attention, reef early, watch for weather predictions and seasonal trends etc and you will be fine. The odds of either are pretty low.
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Old 25-11-2016, 09:54   #35
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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Cat, mono, power boat, ocean kayak, etc...
I don't care about sinking any old way...it's the sharks that bother me !!!
I agree. Even though I now know that cows are the real killers.Thank you, Sea Dreaming!
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Old 25-11-2016, 09:56   #36
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

I know it goes against the spirit of it, but a more interesting question is:-
Why do monohulls sink so easily?
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Old 25-11-2016, 09:58   #37
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

One possible approach to fears is to ask yourself, do you prefer to worry about squalls and having too much speed and sails up, or do you prefer to worry about corroding seacocks, old hoses and the condition of your life raft? Do you like the radical approach of sailing at the edge, or the conservative approach of reefing sails early?
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Old 25-11-2016, 10:04   #38
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

What about fire ?

I cannot remember where I read that (I think it was on a french forum), but it seems there are more boat sinking because of on board fire than seacock failure or water ingress from other source.
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Old 25-11-2016, 10:07   #39
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

This is just a personal feeling and observation as I have a Mono (49ft) and a Cat (45ft).

My wife and I have crossed the Pacific with the Cat and sailed the west coast with the Mono. We have experienced much rougher weather conditions with the Cat.

Both of us feel much safer on the Cat. I really want to prefer the Mono, and I will always own one, but for comfort and safety the Cat cannot be beat.

In my opinion, it is extremely difficult to capsize a heavy cruising Cat. Even if it does capsize, it usually floats. I am not talking about lightweight race-oriented Cats.

On the other hand, it is less difficult to knock down and sink a Mono. Also, chances of personal injury are higher due to more severe boat motion. It takes much more knowledge and experience to sail the Mono correctly and safely. But, I love challenges and the Mono is teaching me how to sail the Cat better.

Just my observation.
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Old 25-11-2016, 10:18   #40
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

"People who have too much fear should avoid outdoor sports and generally try to stay in a brick and mortar, well-insured buildings." barnakiel


I have never felt the fear of sinking when taking to sea. I have worried about severe sea conditions, approaching bad weather, unforeseen and improbable equipment failure . . . but never fear of sinking. And, these concerns ARE the reason I sail since they provide ,for me, an escape from a largely mundane, predetermined course of events during any day, week or month in a prescribed land-based life. There are some of us(many on this Forum)who need to push the limits of human existence beyond the tight constraints of a "civilized" life. It is why I go to sea. Good luck and safe sailing.
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Old 25-11-2016, 10:45   #41
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

I don't think that question makes much sense.

Obviously on a monohull everybody will be much more concerned about sinking than capsizing. Most capsizes till over 90 (to the AVS) normally don't have serious consequences (and they are by far the more frequent) and even if the boat is inverted in almost all cases a modern cruising monohull will re- right itself, sometimes with serious problems, losing the mast, losing the engine, or sometimes with few problems. In very rare cases the boat sinks after re righting itself due to damage that resulted from the capsize.

On some cases the monohull is able to continue sailing normally, on other cases it has to resource to an improvised rig but on the huge majority of cases where the boat is not able to continue sailing if offers a safe shelter till a rescue takes place.

Anyway note that the vast majority of rescues to monohulls happened after the boat having capsized (not rolled) several times or because a risk of capsize is feared .Most boats where a crew rescue takes place are in sailing condition or with shredded sails, but not risking imminent sinking. One has only to look at the movies taken by the rescuers, they are many on the net.

Normally the skipper says that the boat is making water, even if we can see on many movies that the boats sits normally on their waterline. I believe they say that for insurance coverage and they are abandoning the boat not because they are in danger but because they are afraid they may be, if they continue sailing.

Even if some monohulls are unsinkable due to waterproof compartments, unsinkability is much more common on cats even if some have sunk after capsizing.

When a cat capsizes in good weather conditions and does not sink, it can offer a survival platform, a wet one and probably offering worst survival conditions than a good offshore life raft, where one is protected from the cold.

But if the capsize happens in strong weather then staying attached to a platform with breakers going over it is very difficult or impossible and many have died after a cat capsize due to not being able to remain over the capsized cat or for exposition to the cold water.

Even on a cat, an offshore liferaft, that can be released with the cat capsized, is fundamental for the safety of the crew.

Answering directly to your question, if for a monohull sailor a capsize is not normally the end of the line and therefore they are much more afraid of sinking (even if they can resource to the liferaft) for a cat sailor a capsize can be the end of the line, the boat is not going re right itself, no possibility of continuing sailing after that and the ability to stay over the cat waiting for help with bad sea conditions is certainly no bigger, in what regards survival conditions, than staying on an offhore liferaft ....and many cats don't carry a liferaft or carry one that cannot be deployed with the boat inverted.

So, it is normal to have different fears, I mean on the rare occasions where there is something to fear. Many or most will never pass by a situation where fear may be justifiable.
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Old 25-11-2016, 10:55   #42
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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Capsize vs Sinking Fear is how dirt dwellers talk.

Much easier to stay on land and not worry about either issue.
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Old 25-11-2016, 11:42   #43
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

The guy in the video must have been wearing too many medal chains?
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Old 25-11-2016, 11:51   #44
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

I have 3 water tight bulk heads on my mono to help me stay afloat. 200 mph can knock down a mono but only a wave can cape size a mono. If all hatches are cloaed some water will enter but not enough to sink the boat. My fear is how long I can hold my breath before she self rightings.
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Old 25-11-2016, 11:54   #45
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Re: Capsize vs Sinking Fear

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Originally Posted by boom23 View Post
This is just a personal feeling and observation as I have a Mono (49ft) and a Cat (45ft).

My wife and I have crossed the Pacific with the Cat and sailed the west coast with the Mono. We have experienced much rougher weather conditions with the Cat.

Both of us feel much safer on the Cat. I really want to prefer the Mono, and I will always own one, but for comfort and safety the Cat cannot be beat.

In my opinion, it is extremely difficult to capsize a heavy cruising Cat. Even if it does capsize, it usually floats. I am not talking about lightweight race-oriented Cats.

On the other hand, it is less difficult to knock down and sink a Mono. Also, chances of personal injury are higher due to more severe boat motion. It takes much more knowledge and experience to sail the Mono correctly and safely. But, I love challenges and the Mono is teaching me how to sail the Cat better.

Just my observation.
I haven't " experienced much rougher weather conditions in a cat", so while I'm loving the cat learning process, I'd admit I'm still more concerned about capsize than sinking.( Neither keeps me awake.) This makes me think it's often the fear of the less known that worries us. Boom is in the fortunate position of having lots of experience in both types of vessel. I hope to be there ( not too) soon.
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