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Old 13-02-2015, 17:09   #61
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

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Thanks, probably more crass than nice. I just get tired of the "I" did, "I" have, "I", "I", "I".. An ego outlet for many it seems?
Gee, Cadence, whose experience should we be quoting in our efforts to answer the question "Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?. Or should we just be spouting off with no experience base to draw from, just parroting something we read on the internet?

I only know what worked for me. The fact that it did work is relevant to the query... or at least I thought it was. How do you think the question should be addressed?

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Old 13-02-2015, 17:16   #62
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

[QUOTE=Cadence;1748310]Grats to you. Having grown up on stink pots, I knew nav. etc.. Learned to sail by my self. If someone has no experience I would still recommend crewing, crewed with my old man for years Why does everyone need the ego trip of I have rather than what makes sense for the OP? Sorry if I am a crass old f#$%, It isn't about what I've done it is about helping the OP.[/QUOTE

I don't understand. You are trying to help me? What I did was present an opinion after thinking about it for a while. Did not mean to offend you with the singular noun, but wanted to make clear were and why said opinions were presented. If you find my opinions egotistic and sad (and they may well be). So be it. I can live with that.
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Old 13-02-2015, 17:47   #63
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

The good thing about CF is all the new friends we make even though we are sometimes so different:

Kinda Like these guys:

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Old 13-02-2015, 18:11   #64
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

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You also ask in the next post why I would not advocate just going out and doing it. Remember when you bought your boat you had help in the passage to your home. We are community creatures, we learn well with each others help. And you were learning on the water. The ideal situation IMHO. Once you have learned the basics, I see nothing bad about going out on your own. You know the risks, and hopefully you know the weather and the charts. But I do not think you are just going out and doing it as a first timer.

You certainly were not learning on CF.

Remember I had never sat foot really aboard a sailboat until I bought ours.
Only a fool would set out on a ten day journey, in a completely new to them boat and some of it offshore without Professional assistance, having never done it themselves.
Believe it or not, but I valued greatly your advice in doing that, and took it to heart and came up with some "bail out plans" for the wife, just in case it became miserable for her. I had done some research on when and where we could put her ashore for her to fly home if needed. That is exactly the point, if I had not been here on CF, and you had not taken the time to give me that very valuable advice, It's very unlikely that I would have thought to have done that, so I learned on CF.
But, that was the only time I've had a professional aboard, since then we have been learning to crawl, maybe doing a little walking, but are a long way from running. But it will come, give it time.
I've gleaned quite a lot from CF, some garbage of course, but usually it's not too hard to discern that, but especially on determining essential equipment like radios, AIS transponders, energy management, Solar, etc., etc. it's been very valuable.
Of course caveat emptor, but using the experienced Captain as an example, here online there are in theory hundreds of experienced brains to pick, on almost any subject, heck even how to finance your cruise
Yes even sailing. I do participate on many threads, especially ones about engines and things I have experience with, but the sailing threads I monitor and try to learn. I think I've picked up some hints. Quite honestly a lot of it is simply over my head, I'm like a pig looking at a wrist watch, but most I can figure out.
I think it's important to have a VERY healthy respect for weather and just how powerful the forces of Mother Nature are.
But, I think "just go for it" is if there is some common sense involved with it is actually a viable way to learn, you just have to have enough sense to understand your a novice, with novice skills and act accordingly is all.
Truthfully I taught myself how to swim, ride a bicycle, drive, ride a motorcycle, water ski, weld, shoot, composites, mechanics, most of my skills. I've gotten all kinds of broken bones and scars to show for it too.
It may not be acceptable today, we are supposed to take classes for everything now, but silly as it is, I take a little pride in teaching myself how to do things.

Trick is you have to understand your limits, and understand the possible consequences of exceeding those limits



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Old 13-02-2015, 20:45   #65
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

As A64 points out, we're all a lot different in how we learn. I'm a "I'll figgure it out" kinda person, with lots of research before. Others are a "I'll take a class" type.

Example: My first car. It was a hand-me-down from my sister. Stick shift, manual steering, manual brakes, etc.. I had a freshly minted license and had learned in my mom's buick (obviously an automatic). My dad handed me the keys and said "go learn." So I taught myself how to drive a stick shift.

That only worked because I understood what a clutch did, what RPM vs power was, etc.. I understood the principles, then applied them with actual real-life experience.

The 2nd time I ever sailed my own boat the 40 miles to catalina my entire family was on board. Some folks (around socal) are terrified of that 'passage'. I had done it previously on my boat with friends and long ago on a friends columbia 5.5 (which really should never be further offshore than you can swim). Hardest part was picking up the mooring.

But everybody is different. I r an engineer, so I don't find navigation difficult. It's easy-peasy. Charts are obvious. A fix on relative bearings is simple trig. DR is simple vector addition. But somebody else may look at that stuff and it'd be all greek, and some training with an expert would be very helpful.
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Old 14-02-2015, 05:44   #66
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

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Hardest part was picking up the mooring.
This is the part racing can teach you. The finer points of sailing.
Getting from point A to B isn't that tough.

During your average Beach Cat Race you will be at all points of sail 10-15 times in 45 minutes to an hour. Whereas when cruising, you might be on one to two points for hours are days.

But then there is all the stuff that can be dangerous. Like this guy's sail offshore.

I learned this kind of thing between ages 16-20 on beatup power boats bought for around $500.00.

Again self taught but looking back, I would now have stayed much closer to land or would have at least brought along a radio or let someone know every time I went offshore.
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Old 14-02-2015, 10:13   #67
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

[QUOTE=s/v Beth;1748361]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadence View Post
Grats to you. Having grown up on stink pots, I knew nav. etc.. Learned to sail by my self. If someone has no experience I would still recommend crewing, crewed with my old man for years Why does everyone need the ego trip of I have rather than what makes sense for the OP? Sorry if I am a crass old f#$%, It isn't about what I've done it is about helping the OP.[/QUOTE

I don't understand. You are trying to help me? What I did was present an opinion after thinking about it for a while. Did not mean to offend you with the singular noun, but wanted to make clear were and why said opinions were presented. If you find my opinions egotistic and sad (and they may well be). So be it. I can live with that.
You didn't offend me with the singular noun. It just seems many times people need to blow their own horn with, "I have" and it has nothing to do with a solution. I guess ego is something we all have.
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Old 14-02-2015, 10:26   #68
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[QUOTE=Cadence;1748689]
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You didn't offend me with the singular noun. It just seems many times people need to blow their own horn with, "I have" and it has nothing to do with a solution. I guess ego is something we all have.
We take notice...
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Old 14-02-2015, 19:18   #69
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

[QUOTE=Cadence;1748689]
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Originally Posted by s/v Beth View Post

You didn't offend me with the singular noun. It just seems many times people need to blow their own horn with, "I have" and it has nothing to do with a solution. I guess ego is something we all have.
No foul Cadence. I looked closer at your post I found you weren't pointing at me. Forgive me for getting huffy.
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Old 14-02-2015, 19:20   #70
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

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Trick is you have to understand your limits, and understand the possible consequences of exceeding those limits
Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
And that, my friends is the quote of the day, or in other words...
"A man has got to understand his own limitations"
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:40   #71
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

OK so serious question:

I haven't had any formal sailing training, only a few sails and much reading and some ocean canoeing. I know how to read nautical charts and use current tables and navigate. My sail trimming wouldn't impress anyone, I'm sure but I could improve that with time.

I want formal training and international certification but my work schedule and preference for winter boating and not spending a week at a time with a bunch of people I don't know make that unlikely to happen before I buy my next boat. Do you think I would be foolish to buy a small cruiser and learn on my own assuming an application of common sense (not sailing in rough weather right away or in busy spots and never too far from re-supply to motor?) .

A few people I've met in real life thus far have scoffed at the idea of me paying "Yachties" nearly two thousand dollars to go sailing for a week so I guess I can't be the first guy to contemplate this.

Also, I would thoroughly check out the boat before casting off in case you thought I might just take off without looking over all the rigging and engine. I'm fairly knowledgable with engines, less so with diesel but I would never be so foolish as to motor with air intake facing forward exposed to spray etc just as an example. Usually breakdowns with diesels, in my experience, are straightforward fixes. I'd also read up on my particular engine before departure and bring tools and spares.

What do you think? Am I an idiot? Haha.
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:56   #72
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

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I watch the questions posted here on CF. They seem to form patterns. A good deal of the sailing questions were answered when I was on the water...sailing.
Which leads me to ask the question- can you really learn sailing from CF, or from books for that matter.
Or do you just have to sail?
You have to sail and sail a lot, and I don't mean 1000's of miles on autopilot which is more about cruising.

To really learn to sail, you have to race. And you have to be the Skipper calling the tacks, position on the start line, position on the race course, favored side, boat setup etc

It's really fun stuff as long as you don't get too serious about it then it isn't fun, it a job.

Racing one design is especially interesting....
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:06   #73
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

I can only speak from my experience. I started 30 years ago crewing on my friend's 26 foot boat where we practiced once per week and raced once per week. I read a lot and also owned a windsurf board. After a year or so I chartered my first Catalina 30 in the San Juan Islands. Eventually I bought a small boat, and a bigger one, and another... Lots of crewing and practice, but I still haven't taken a formal class. Not saying it's the right way, but it was my way.
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Old 01-11-2016, 12:06   #74
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

[QUOTE=s/v Beth;1749061]
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Originally Posted by Cadence View Post

No foul Cadence. I looked closer at your post I found you weren't pointing at me. Forgive me for getting huffy.
No foul, I have a thick skin. Forgive me if my phasing was somewhat ambiguous.
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Old 01-11-2016, 13:15   #75
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Re: Can you learn to sail on Cruiser's Forum?

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You have to sail and sail a lot, and I don't mean 1000's of miles on autopilot which is more about cruising.

To really learn to sail, you have to race. And you have to be the Skipper calling the tacks, position on the start line, position on the race course, favored side, boat setup etc

It's really fun stuff as long as you don't get too serious about it then it isn't fun, it a job.

Racing one design is especially interesting....
Interesting, why is that? I have zero interest in racing. I could be wrong but it seems like a completely different ballgame from cruising. I get that racing could be helpful in learning to deal with adversity and all that but I also get the impression that in racing one puts more emphasis on speed rather than safety. While cruising I wouldn't hesitate to reef if I thought winds were going to increase or the sea state was about to worsen. I've never raced but it appears that many skippers would prefer to really push their luck? Please don't take offense, this is just an outsider's perspective and I could be way off but I don't think I am. It's like bicycle touring vs racing, not remotely similar. One is fun and the other is a job (assuming you like to relax on your journey as I do) people die while rushing or favouring attaining their goals over doing things safely in every sport I have tried (and that's a LOT of sports). Do your really think racing is necessary for a cruiser to become competent?

BTW I agree 1000s of miles on autopilot won't necessarily teach much but don't most cruisers learn their skills closer to shore with all the islands, traffic and narrow passages with accompanying heavy currents and changing winds? Seems like a good place to learn.
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