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Old 01-08-2018, 15:34   #1
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Can you identify this transformer?

There isnít any identification on this isolation transformer and itís possible that it is wired incorrectly causing a reverse polarity issue.
Thank you for any help you can provide.
Wes
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Old 01-08-2018, 15:48   #2
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

I can't identify it by looking at it.


Electrical problems are notoriously difficult to diagnose over the internet.


A problem with "polarity" in an isolation transformer installation, while possible, would be unusual to notice. Perhaps you can explain what's going on.
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Old 01-08-2018, 16:05   #3
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

My electrician has installed a Victron inverter charger, new AC panel. And the negative polarity showed up on the new panel. I believe that it was also present on the old panel but the light was very dim during the daytime.
There is 60 volts between neutral and ground.
I was hoping to find a manual/ wiring diagram for this transformer.
Thank you very much!
Wes
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Old 01-08-2018, 16:16   #4
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

Try to make your own, start by drawing the terminal strip, then identify and trace the wires and where they go. In these usually the wires are called L1 and L2 not L and N.
I would expect you to have
L1 in
L2 in
L1 out
L2 out
Ground in
Ground out.

I suspect the G in, is connected according to ABYC, but that defeats the purpose, and you probably have 60v between L1 or L2 and N, (2x=120v)

Tell your 'lectrician to connect the ground on the new Victron, to the ground out on the isol/tx THROUGH a 100w Lightbulb!

Then see if you have reverse polarity. I suspect you will as there is no N that is tied to G, its G with 60v either side of it.
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Old 01-08-2018, 17:48   #5
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

Thank you CF folks for the help.
I now have a wiring diagram for this Transformer.
Itís a Ample Power circa 1989!!
My boat is a 1997...
Wes
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Old 01-08-2018, 18:14   #6
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weshoff View Post
My electrician has installed a Victron inverter charger, new AC panel. And the negative polarity showed up on the new panel. I believe that it was also present on the old panel but the light was very dim during the daytime.
There is 60 volts between neutral and ground.
I was hoping to find a manual/ wiring diagram for this transformer.
Thank you very much!
Wes

The problem you have is not in the transformer.


Your electrician will have to determine how to handle grounding for various independently derived sources. It is not straightforward, and there are various schools of thought.


I myself would not consider a floating neutral (which is what you have) to be a serious problem.
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Old 01-08-2018, 19:25   #7
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weshoff View Post
My electrician has installed a Victron inverter charger, new AC panel. And the negative polarity showed up on the new panel. I believe that it was also present on the old panel but the light was very dim during the daytime.
There is 60 volts between neutral and ground.
I was hoping to find a manual/ wiring diagram for this transformer.
Thank you very much!
Wes
As per ABYC and others, any 120v AC SOURCE should have one of the outputs tied to the AC ground, and that is now your NEUTRAL.

An AC SOURCE is defined as a source of 120v AC on your boat that is independent of any other AC supply. This includes an onboard AC generator, or an DC to AC inverter, or an isolation transformer. None of these have any direct connection to AC power from shore.

(Shore power has its neutral already tied to ground, at the panel that controls the power going out to the dock pedestel, so no, you DON'T connect shorepower neutral to ground in the boat. This is also per ABYC)

All 120 v AC switching is done to the hot line, so if you don't have the neutral of an AC source tied to ground, you might get a mild shock from touching the neutral when changing a light-bulb, for example. Also it's a safety issue in that if the neutral isn't tied to ground, the hot side could contact the boat's metallic structure, but not pop a breaker. This may also mess with the safe operation of ground-fault detection.

This is covered in ABYC section E-11.17. Yes, you can Google it. Show this to your electrician.
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:16   #8
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

Basically isolation mean nothing on the input side is connected to the output side including grounds. Air gapped.
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Old 02-08-2018, 08:42   #9
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

Where are you getting you AC from? I agree with you having a floating neutral but would be hesitant to tie a neutral to ground. you may be grounding the entire marine if using shore power. I'd be damn sure it isn't a supply problem.
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:06   #10
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

Hello, and thank you all for the education...


After unplugging shore power the problem still was present.



I supplied my electrician with the correct Ample Power Isolation transformer wiring diagram and he said he will install a jumper "from neutral to ground at the panel".
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:18   #11
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

Here is the diagram of the Ample_Power_IsoTrans:
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Old 02-08-2018, 11:48   #12
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weshoff View Post
Hello, and thank you all for the education...


After unplugging shore power the problem still was present.



I supplied my electrician with the correct Ample Power Isolation transformer wiring diagram and he said he will install a jumper "from neutral to ground at the panel".
I'd give you dollars to donuts, the jumpers on the transformer are incorrect. Jumped for 220 with a 110 supply. Or the white and blacks are swapped and the primary and secondary are swapped. Don't go jumping any grounds to neutrals.
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Old 02-08-2018, 14:23   #13
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

If there is 60 volts neutral to ground on the output side of your device, when correctly wired, --it sounds faulty to me.

There should be three connections coming in to the transformer, the earth one goes to the metal frame of the cabinet or to an isolated terminal to which nothing is connected.

The phase and neutral of the input go to the input tabs of the transformer--they are usually in a pair. The output forms the other pair. Since this is a 1:1 transformer, it should not matter which forms the inlet or outlet.

There should be NO voltage between the output and earth. That is the whole idea.
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Old 02-08-2018, 14:33   #14
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

I'd go with the boots on the "ground", the electrician.

If the secondary of a symmetrically constructed shielded isolation transformer is left ungrounded, and a measurement of either side's voltage to ground is made with a high impedance voltmeter you will read half the secondary voltage from either side to ground.

This is because the secondary is coupled to ground through the windings stray capacitance, and the floating loads capacitances as well.

The idea of the transformer is the neither end of the secondary is hot or neutral until you tie one end to a local ground.

Another idea to keep clear in your mind is that a "ground" is not universal. Marina ground is not ship's ground is not ground for the power plant 100 miles away is not ground for your radar transmitter. They may be close in voltage but are not the same thing.
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Old 02-08-2018, 14:42   #15
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Re: Can you identify this transformer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Banks View Post
If there is 60 volts neutral to ground on the output side of your device, when correctly wired, --it sounds faulty to me.

There should be three connections coming in to the transformer, the earth one goes to the metal frame of the cabinet or to an isolated terminal to which nothing is connected.

The phase and neutral of the input go to the input tabs of the transformer--they are usually in a pair. The output forms the other pair. Since this is a 1:1 transformer, it should not matter which forms the inlet or outlet.

There should be NO voltage between the output and earth. That is the whole idea.
Apparently it isn't only 1:1 solely. It can be wired to drop 220 to 110 or visa versa or 1:1.
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