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Old 14-05-2014, 21:12   #331
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

I have no idea what SmackD's agenda might be, but his digging about in the history of the vessel has revealed some weaknesses that could well explain the leaking decks that we were all wondering about. I don't have the patience to do that research, and I thank him for bringing it to my attention.

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Old 14-05-2014, 21:13   #332
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

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Oh, and AnneT - it's a Hunter

Something about glass houses comes to mind?

oh this will be fun.
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Old 14-05-2014, 21:23   #333
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

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Is anyone else here curious about smackdaddy's putative boat? and his agenda here?
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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
I have no idea what SmackD's agenda might be, but his digging about in the history of the vessel has revealed some weaknesses that could well explain the leaking decks that we were all wondering about. I don't have the patience to do that research, and I thank him for bringing it to my attention.

Jim

This is going to be even more fun!!!
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Old 14-05-2014, 21:24   #334
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

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Between this stuff, termites and rot in the mast, etc. - I seriously feel sorry for the guy. Seems there was A LOT of rot on this boat. Could anything other than a complete re-decking (and more) have made this thing ready for a big offshore passage?


Probably not. The pictures say it all. 40+ year old plywood? Given the rot visible in the pics, I am certain it was extensive. Wonder if this boat was surveyed on purchase? Seems he wasn't even aware of its construction type until well into repairing it. Wonder if it was moisture metered before purchase, or thoroughly hammer sounded? Endemic rot like this can be hard to detect by sounding, but the meter would have shown it instantly...
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Old 14-05-2014, 21:28   #335
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

I'd like to offer up a critique. Not for the purpose of being mean spirited. Just an observation from my perspective (a female). This was what I learned from this incident and hope others do as well.


IMO it was not a good thing to unnecessarily minimize the comfort of his crew while they were trying to rest. Stress, and lack of sleep has been well documented as a factor to lower immune response on land, and at sea. Disturbed sleep, and sleep deprivation has several negative effects. I think he was pushing too hard.

Monday, March 24, 2014 at 7:01“You know, I can change the sail configuration a bit.” “What? I had no idea.” I’m such a noob to sailing long distances. “Yeah…just give me a sec.” And I crumpled to floor next to Lyra and tried to convince my stomach that I wasn’t nauseous. A few minutes later, Eric popped into view from the companionway. “Is that better?” And believe it or not, it was. I nodded, disbelieving. “Hold on, one more adjustment.”Within a minute or two things were so much more bearable. I’m sure Eric can/will write a post explaining what he did to change things around."


Things improved so much that within a few hours we were all enjoying time in the cockpit and Eric and I were having long discussions about our future. Our sailing future I mean. Our sailing future with children, and this boat. Sailing across oceans is a great venue for discussing upcoming adventures. The only thing we were missing was Wikipedia so we could research things we were wondering about. Eric made dinner. Eric fixed the awful sailing situation. And we both talked about life once we got to New Zealand. The day officially improved from absolute fail to passing.

So you did good during daylight and gave all a respite for a few hours. As an audience I really almost could hear a deep breath, a sigh, and a smile on Charlotte's lips.


Then you negated that effect by, IMO, making this especially deceptive nasty (d!ck!$h) maneuver. I think that perhaps they were not really "sleeping" as soundly as you assumed, or could've been, because of your actions.WTH, the day before, on the 3rd day, she was ready to bail and you turned everyone's attitudes around but that same evening you did this........

day_4?

Sunday, March 23, 2014 at 3:58

"At night when everyone is in bed, I sneak around and trim all the sails in a little tighter and put us back on a close reach. The motion is lumpy but people are sleeping so I get away with it. Once everyone is awake I'll widen back up again to a broad reach for the comfort factor."

Brilliant strategy! I really do wish you all well, was happy that all were saved, and was touched by the rescue. I respect your wife and children, and those that rescued you.
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Old 14-05-2014, 21:43   #336
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
When I saw someone needed a map to find the starboard quarter, it helped me to realize the large diversity of folks engaged in this conversation.
ROFLMAO Please oh please -- keep that droll sense of humor intact!

Hey - sorry for all your troubles, mate. But you were right: family first.
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Old 14-05-2014, 21:50   #337
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

What she said!
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Old 14-05-2014, 22:11   #338
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

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Originally Posted by Gadagirl View Post
Then you negated that effect by, IMO, making this especially deceptive nasty (d!ck!$h) maneuver. I think that perhaps they were not really "sleeping" as soundly as you assumed, or could've been, because of your actions.WTH, the day before, on the 3rd day, she was ready to bail and you turned everyone's attitudes around but that same evening you did this........

day_4?

Sunday, March 23, 2014 at 3:58

"At night when everyone is in bed, I sneak around and trim all the sails in a little tighter and put us back on a close reach. The motion is lumpy but people are sleeping so I get away with it. Once everyone is awake I'll widen back up again to a broad reach for the comfort factor."

Brilliant strategy! I really do wish you all well, was happy that all were saved, and was touched by the rescue. I respect your wife and children, and those that rescued you.
It seems obvious to me that Eric was trying to get out of a bad area for the good of his crew. The fact that he was willing to trade speed for the comfort of his crew is a positive. Loping along would likely only have served to prolong their discomfort.

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Old 14-05-2014, 22:21   #339
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

I'm specifically not trying to argue or defend anything, but rather answer every question as accurately as I can. I would caution anyone interested in learning about what happened to be a little careful about conjecturing that a problem, repaired, in one place years before is somehow related to something else.

If you want to draw that conclusion, it's your business. Like I said, I'm not going to try to argue or defend anything.

There are plenty of things not written on my blog. It is not, nor have I presented it, as a comprehensive and balanced view of everything about our boat and our life. I picked topics I wanted to put on there; others weren't, so looking at it like you'll find an even-steven accounting of affairs is a fool's errand.

In the end, a big lesson that I learned is that sometimes you'll need to make decisions without having all the information you want. I couldn't see where the failure was. I couldn't talk to medical professionals with a medical emergency onboard. I couldn't accurately state how long it would take to get where we needed to go.

But a decision still had to be made, and I made mine. You might have made a different one, and that's your choice as master.

If you have a specific question you want to ask me, PM it to me and I'll post a reply here in the thread (if you like). But I'm done with filtering through quasi-accusations, and there's not a lot more facts I can really offer.

If there's some way I can help let me know, but this has devolved from informational to speculative and entertainment.
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Old 14-05-2014, 22:27   #340
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

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I'm sorry, but as someone who has done a lot of fiberglass work, nobody is repairing a hull-deck joint in snotty conditions, underway, regardless of what one has on board. Stuffing a pillow in it? Maybe. But epoxy putty? No way. Stuffing frayed ropes goo'd up with sealant? That is so funny I'm still laughing. A real fiberglass repair? Well, get out your grinder and power it up, tear out all cabinetry, etc. If you plan on epoxy, no way - 12hr cure time minimum. If you plan on polyester, mix it hot and hope for the best. The next wave, however, will most likely rip it open again. This assume, of course, that the open joint has magically become completely stationary.

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Old 14-05-2014, 22:37   #341
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

While uncomfortable with the tone of some posts, this has been an interesting tangent.

Albeit probably quite removed from the reality of what actually happened

Eric if my daughter was sick I doubt I would remember the name of our boat. It was a good decision.
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Old 14-05-2014, 23:17   #342
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

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Originally Posted by rebel heart View Post
In the end, a big lesson that I learned is that sometimes you'll need to make decisions without having all the information you want. I couldn't see where the failure was. I couldn't talk to medical professionals with a medical emergency onboard. I couldn't accurately state how long it would take to get where we needed to go.

But a decision still had to be made, and I made mine. You might have made a different one, and that's your choice as master.
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Old 14-05-2014, 23:51   #343
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re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

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This thread makes me wonder what the weak link in our boat is and what the first thing to fail will be...
The weak link and the thing we can expect to fail is ourselves. Trying our best to make more than 1/2 right decisions; trying to handle problem after problem until, finally, we are drained and have had enough. The boat could go on. But we cannot.
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Old 15-05-2014, 00:00   #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadagirl View Post
I'd like to offer up a critique. Not for the purpose of being mean spirited. Just an observation from my perspective (a female). This was what I learned from this incident and hope others do as well.

IMO it was not a good thing to unnecessarily minimize the comfort of his crew while they were trying to rest. Stress, and lack of sleep has been well documented as a factor to lower immune response on land, and at sea. Disturbed sleep, and sleep deprivation has several negative effects. I think he was pushing too hard.

Monday, March 24, 2014 at 7:01“You know, I can change the sail configuration a bit.” “What? I had no idea.” I’m such a noob to sailing long distances. “Yeah…just give me a sec.” And I crumpled to floor next to Lyra and tried to convince my stomach that I wasn’t nauseous. A few minutes later, Eric popped into view from the companionway. “Is that better?” And believe it or not, it was. I nodded, disbelieving. “Hold on, one more adjustment.”Within a minute or two things were so much more bearable. I’m sure Eric can/will write a post explaining what he did to change things around."


Things improved so much that within a few hours we were all enjoying time in the cockpit and Eric and I were having long discussions about our future. Our sailing future I mean. Our sailing future with children, and this boat. Sailing across oceans is a great venue for discussing upcoming adventures. The only thing we were missing was Wikipedia so we could research things we were wondering about. Eric made dinner. Eric fixed the awful sailing situation. And we both talked about life once we got to New Zealand. The day officially improved from absolute fail to passing.

So you did good during daylight and gave all a respite for a few hours. As an audience I really almost could hear a deep breath, a sigh, and a smile on Charlotte's lips.

Then you negated that effect by, IMO, making this especially deceptive nasty (d!ck!$h) maneuver. I think that perhaps they were not really "sleeping" as soundly as you assumed, or could've been, because of your actions.WTH, the day before, on the 3rd day, she was ready to bail and you turned everyone's attitudes around but that same evening you did this........

day_4?

Sunday, March 23, 2014 at 3:58

"At night when everyone is in bed, I sneak around and trim all the sails in a little tighter and put us back on a close reach. The motion is lumpy but people are sleeping so I get away with it. Once everyone is awake I'll widen back up again to a broad reach for the comfort factor."

Brilliant strategy! I really do wish you all well, was happy that all were saved, and was touched by the rescue. I respect your wife and children, and those that rescued you.
What the heck? He was a third of the way into what was turning into a month long passage. He was trying to get out of the ITCZ into the trades where everybody would be more comfortable. The difference between a close reach and a broad reach is 90 degrees.

So how long did you want him to sail in the wrong direction?

The family got a break. He was trying to balance short term morale and long term morale. Better comfort now for adding days to a long voyage when everybody will be going sir crazy at the end.

He made a good and caring choice as a skipper, father, and husband.
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Old 15-05-2014, 00:02   #345
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Talking re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

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Seriously, what have you all really learned that you didn't already know before this incident? What are you all hiding behind?

I can guarantee, bet a heavy bet even, that everyone of us who is reading this thread will F U in their own unique creative inventive personal way regardless of what we think we "learn" from threads such as this one. Nature will always find a weak link and there are an infinite number to choose from.

Pick your poison.
I've learned there's a lot of people on this thread who will never cross an ocean. Too much analysis and dissection = crippling procrastination.
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