Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-05-2014, 20:17   #166
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,217
Images: 2
pirate re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
For most situations you're absolutely right Boaty. However, Eric's already said that he's pretty sure the boat would have arrived just fine. But with a sick toddler and no comms, it was time to push the button.
I've never argued against his decision.. in fact I've applauded it..
Its just his seamanship I question.. not his decision.. which in my book was the best he could have made.
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline  
Old 12-05-2014, 20:30   #167
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: USA
Boat: Cape Dory
Posts: 439
re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

Interesting question. Eric kept some main up in order to maintain the ability to head up and heave-to. If you run under some headsail and decide later that you want / need to heave to because the the wind and sea state rise; is it reasonable to think that you can raise the main, head-up and heave-to?

This is a question I come back to over and over. Curious to hear from Phil, Eric and others.

Happy to have you back Eric. Great interview - very informative -- nice choice.
__________________

__________________
Mambo is offline  
Old 12-05-2014, 20:43   #168
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 20,217
Images: 2
pirate re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mambo View Post
Interesting question. Eric kept some main up in order to maintain the ability to head up and heave-to. If you run under some headsail and decide later that you want / need to heave to because the the wind and sea state rise; is it reasonable to think that you can raise the main, head-up and heave-to?

This is a question I come back to over and over. Curious to hear from Phil, Eric and others.

Happy to have you back Eric. Great interview - very informative -- nice choice.
Why raise the main.. sheet in and set the genoa to match.. wind going up.. WTF do you want more main..
Max reef.. centre main.. find favourable jib set.. go below.. make coffee and break out the plain chocolate digestives..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline  
Old 12-05-2014, 20:44   #169
Registered User
 
Terra Nova's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Marina del Rey, California
Boat: Freya 39 cutter- Terra Nova
Posts: 3,651
re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snore View Post
The logical question is.... What is the proper damage control for a partial deck-hull joint failure? What should a reasonably well outfitted vessel have on-board to address this?
Plumber's putty and/or some rags driven in with a putty knife. This is where you innovate using materials you have at hand.
__________________
1st rule of yachting: When a collision is unavoidable, aim for something cheap.
"whatever spare parts you bring, you'll never need"--goboatingnow
"Id rather drown than have computers take over my life."--d design
Terra Nova is offline  
Old 12-05-2014, 20:51   #170
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: USA
Boat: Cape Dory
Posts: 439
re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Why raise the main.. sheet in and set the genoa to match.. wind going up.. WTF do you want more main..
Max reef.. centre main.. find favourable jib set.. go below.. make coffee and break out the plain chocolate digestives..
I get the "how to heave-to". I am following up on Eric's thoughts on why he had main up . . . he wanted to maintain the ability to heave to. But you suggested you'd have been running under headsail alone. So, if you [Phil] have dropped all main and are running under headsail alone, have you given up the ability to heave to? Or, would you re-raise (obviously double / triple reefed) main in order to be able to head up and heave to?
__________________
Mambo is offline  
Old 12-05-2014, 23:46   #171
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

Most people seem to be assuming a single or localised major leak.

Unless it was hidden behind joinerwork, it seems more likely to me that it was a bunch of minor leaks. It doesn't take much to amount to a gallon or two an hour, when things on deck are sloshy. I think we can assume that if it was easily discovered and fixed, Eric would have done that.

Even on a well built boat, the water from minor leaks can travel considerable distances and emerge from strange places*, and once the bilge is continually partly full, you lose some ability to diagnose additional sources low down, like a leaking shaft log or thru-hull (a pipe or two might have taken a whack when the boat was laying over)

Minor deck leaks can be extremely difficult to cure, even on a boat you can haul out and take back to your workshop.

* One failsafe way to encourage the water to emerge in a specific location is to put an irreplaceable, not-backed-up-'yet' laptop there, and leave it open.

I have spent more thousands of miles sailing on leaking boats than I ever want to repeat, and it's almost number one on my list of things which get me down at sea.
A very short list, I might add.

A friend and I took a sailboat completely apart (deck off the hull) and put it back together properly. Including NO through-fastenings on the side-decks. It was easier than tracking down and successfully staunching all the weeping fasteners, as we'd been attempting to do for years.

It cost us a whole year's sailing, but it was worth it. From then on, it was one of the few fibreglass boats I've known which had permanently dusty bilges.
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline  
Old 12-05-2014, 23:47   #172
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

If there's plenty of wind, many if not most boats will heave to fine with just the jib (a staysail is even better)
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline  
Old 13-05-2014, 00:56   #173
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,710
re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

What we seem to be discussing now is "how to complete a delivery"--one without a medical emergency.

I agree with boatie mostly about sailing stuff, but here I will say how you actually address conditions depends on experience and on your rig. But Boatie's advice is certainly a good place to start.

We used to have a foresail driven boat (the first Insatiable we had) and now we have a mains'l driven boat with a fractional rig. In rough conditions, we're more likely to be down to a 3 reefed main than a heads'l. Sailing under headsail alone I think works beautifully for many boats; our boat feels "happier" (sorry, Boatie) with the main than just a heads'l. So, to me, it's a bit of horses for courses, but Boatie's generally absolutely correct, in that whatever you can do to take strain off the boat is the best thing to do.

Something that has not yet been mentioned here, but to me is part of the picture, is that weather condiditons change, wind, cloud, and current all change. Storms or squalls pass by. Sometimes, one just has to be patient. If you stay in one place, the weather will pass you by, and change.

Eric: one time I was on watch, squall came. Down pole. Pause. Up Pole on the other side. Down Pole. Reach. Close hauled. Close hauled on other tack. Reaching. Pole up again. My track on the GPS looked like this: _O_ I knew it happened, but doing it and all the work involved, made me understand squalls better. Oh, yes, and Jim's strategies, which meant living with it and not changing much and getting on with life after it was over. Had I changed course, rather than trying to stay exactly on course, I might have overall made more progress in the desired direction. You see Ann's learning process and Jim's superior wisdom.

Eric, I'm so very glad you guys are back here on CF.

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline  
Old 13-05-2014, 01:18   #174
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,710
re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

Stuff we all have that can help stuff up leaks:
Pillows, blankets, sleeping bags (perhaps); towels; clothing

Stuff we have that can cover open places in hull: sails not in use. The submariner had to do everything from inside, but we can slide a sail down to cover a hole, using lines to control and secure it. We're not talking pretty here, we're talking gaining time. Slow down a leak, and you're partly there to a temporary repair.

Stuff we can mix with sealants and place in cracks: any fabrics.

Splash zone is good. Carrying underwater epoxy is prudent.

Call all the Catamaran guys over, 'cause here's a story for you. Seawind 12+. Sat on a rock, busted theZ-drive motor right up, taking on LOTS of water--extremely scary. Got off rock. Put toweling around opening, pushed motor back down, motor heavy enough to make some seal, admiral pumped almost 12 hrs., saved themselves.

So, partly, people do whatever they can to save the boat, but the reality is (see the closed thread on the NINA) sometimes folks don't make it. I need to say this, because if here are newbies reading this thread, I would not want to mislead them to think this cruising is risk-free. A good MacGuiver or Heath Robinson mentality has a better chance of survival. . Because we never know when the *s--t* will happen.

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline  
Old 13-05-2014, 01:36   #175
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,441
re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

Hard to keep modern synthetic sails in place, on the outside of a slippery keeler, except right at the bow. Might be easier with lots of small barnacles...

In the sailing ship days, when they 'fothered' a damaged section of hull with a canvas sail, they would first apply lots of oakum (frayed manila or cotton rope, ?) all over the 'dressing' area, like mad Scotswomen in a tapestry contest.

And having multiple corners (on squaresails) and reefing grommets everywhere, plus the ability to go overboard with a hammer and nails, made it a more fruitful exercise, I would imagine.

Plywood patches and self tapping screws, applied from the inside, preferably smothered in goo after 'dry' fitting, are widely held to be about the best bet for staunching major leaks on a modern glass or wooden hull (possibly even alu) but you'll need either a hand-cranked drill gun or a very expensive underwater drill motor.

(they even make hydraulic ones, for the 'boat with everything -- Ingersoll Rand, kaa - - ching !)
__________________
Andrew Troup is offline  
Old 13-05-2014, 02:06   #176
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, cruising in Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 10,710
re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

Actually Andrew, you're right in that 4 corners on a sail offer better securing possibilites.

And FWIW, friends of ours claimed they made "goop" to block a steelie's hole obtained in the Red Sea with a mix of tallow and Portland cement. They said the patch got the owners to England, where a proper repair was made. They said they thought the sea water gradually dispersed the tallow, wetting the cement, which expanded and hardened.

It's such a wonderful story it's hard to know if it's even possible.

I'd try Splash Zone, myself.

Ann
__________________
Ann, with Jim, aboard US s/v Insatiable II, in Oz, very long term cruisers
JPA Cate is offline  
Old 13-05-2014, 03:53   #177
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
Call for Help/ This American Life

Carry some peat moss, good stuff for stopping leaks, in between, use it to grow lettuce !!!

Why all this fascination with heaving to, a lot of boats will run very easily on headsail alone , a very uncomplicated setup and easy to red in squalls. I see to making " book articles " suggesting " I'd hove to and went below to amazing calm" , mostly that's nonsense

Equally in squalls, thunder, I just sail to the wind , even if I end up doing 360s. All this stuff passes quickly. I mean your crossing oceans , not racing round the cans.

I agree with Phil, at all costs , keep the boat safe, ease it strains wherever possible , dampen motion etc, time and course have little consequence crossing oceans !!

Dave


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline  
Old 13-05-2014, 05:00   #178
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,319
re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

I'm wondering how many people making "suggestions" have ever been out in the open with a boat taking on water from a crack they couldn't get to.

Then lets toss in the rest of the story, like a sick child.
__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is online now  
Old 13-05-2014, 05:42   #179
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 769
re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

I'm amazed at how many members have found themselves in similar situations, and are offering up their 'experience' (excepting the two or three who probably do)

I suspect 'fish stories' aren't just for fishermen.

Sorry you lost her, Eric. You guys are young and capable, you'll be just fine.
__________________
anotherT34C is offline  
Old 13-05-2014, 05:45   #180
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 13,649
Images: 3
re: Call for Help/ This American Life (Merged)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sailorboy1 View Post
I'm wondering how many people making "suggestions" have ever been out in the open with a boat taking on water from a crack they couldn't get to.

Then lets toss in the rest of the story, like a sick child.

I think everyone would answer , press the button. And I don't think a single person has criticised that particular decision. Other aspects however have been

Dave
__________________

__________________
Check out my new blog on smart boat technology, networking and gadgets for the connected sailor! - http://smartboats.tumblr.com
goboatingnow is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
cal, sail, sailboat

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:16.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.