California communities suing for polluters to pay for storm damage

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Actually the question of the lia cause has been identified as combination of solar grand minimum and a couple vol cc anoes .

Budabing budaboom. Ice age.

What's the source providing "consensus" on that one? My understanding is there isn't even scientific agreement on which decades the lia included.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Paul Elliott

No, it's not correct.

"The Fairness Doctrine was a policy of the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC), introduced in 1949, that required the holders of broadcast licenses both to present controversial issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that was — in the Commission's view — honest, equitable, and balanced.

I understand this doctrine was only dismantled by the FCC in 2011, not so long ago, and certainly long after the climate debate began. There are numerous suggestions Media are still under some overt threat of reinstatement of a 'Fairness Doctrine' if balance is lost.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Exile

... China builds on avg. a new coal plant once a week. Hmmmm . . . where do you get your news??

Above news is from 2016. Try reading this year's news:
"China is canceling plans to build more than 100 coal-fired power plants, seeking to rein in runaway, wasteful investment in the sector while moving the country away from one of the dirtiest forms of electricity generation,..."

Are views expressed here being drawn from some 'climate denial' source, or is US news media just full of this nonsense?

[Lepke]

If I was a stock holder in a oil company, I would vote to discontinue sales in California. I had 2 businesses in California many years ago and never would again.
Let them bike.
California and I suppose California voters are wondering why businesses are leaving. They should ask the businesses.
When young, I worked at 3 shipyards and a couple boat yards In California. They are gone now. All but 1 are wiped clean or built over.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Exile, where did you get your news about Germany reverting to coal? Germany is still using coal fired generation as it moves towards green energy. It seems to me that it is the US that is trying to revert to coal after some coal fired plants have moved to natural gas, which isn't all that great.

I was looking for the article but found the one linked below instead. I don't want to selectively quote out of it and it really is worth a thorough read, covering the pros & cons of Germany's push for renewable energy quite well I thought. Notice the graph which shows the spikes & falls of coal emissions prior to 2015 (the most recent year of data cited). The article explains why this reversion to coal occurs. Although published in 2017, the article doesn't mention if they managed to meet the targets shown in the graph. Maybe you have more current info?

Germany’s High-Priced Renewable Energy Revolution | Fortune.com

As for the US, and as already noted, it has produced the largest decrease in carbon emissions than any other country in the world, primarily due to fracking which has produced cheaper & cleaner natural gas as a substitute for burning coal. https://www.forbes.com/sites/rrapier...ide-emissions/ "For comparison, the European Union, which has spent $1.2 trillion on support for wind, solar and bio-energy, increased its carbon dioxide emissions by 0.7 percent in 2015 over 2014 levels." U.S. Outshines Other Countries in CO2 Emissions Reductions - IER.

But I suppose for you to recognize the significance of this undisputed fact you would have to be more interested in the planet's welfare & less interested in having a hate on for oil cos. and conservative politicians.

In 2016, for the first time, New York obtained more than 1 million megawatthours of electricity from solar generation, and 84% of that power came from distributed sources such as rooftop solar panels.

So, cities, states, provinces and countries around the world are doing what they can even as your enemy within tries to reverse the trend. It is a huge problem that will not be reversed in a year or two but at least there are many forward thinking people who are trying.

And many taxpayers who, like it or not, are paying for it!

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Above news is from 2016. Try reading this year's news:
"China is canceling plans to build more than 100 coal-fired power plants, seeking to rein in runaway, wasteful investment in the sector while moving the country away from one of the dirtiest forms of electricity generation,..."

Are views expressed here being drawn from some 'climate denial' source, or is US news media just full of this nonsense?

And news from China is derived from sources indpt. of the Chinese govt? As of the end of 2015, China led the world in carbon emissions with close to 30% of the total, with the U.S. in second place but with less than half that percentage, again thanks mainly to fracking & natural gas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...xide_emissions.

You'll be pleased to know that I took your advice and looked to this year's news, and one of your "nonsense" US news media sources to boot (and one of the most liberal ones at that). I don't know why people are so gullible when it comes to pronouncements by China, but it doesn't appear that the Chinese have any interest in cleaning up the environment:

"When China halted plans for more than 100 new coal-fired power plants this year, even as President Trump vowed to “bring back coal” in America, the contrast seemed to confirm Beijing’s new role as a leader in the fight against climate change.

But new data on the world’s biggest developers of coal-fired power plants paints a very different picture: China’s energy companies will make up nearly half of the new coal generation expected to go online in the next decade.

These Chinese corporations are building or planning to build more than 700 new coal plants at home and around the world, some in countries that today burn little or no coal, according to tallies compiled by Urgewald, an environmental group based in Berlin. Many of the plants are in China, but by capacity, roughly a fifth of these new coal power stations are in other countries.

Over all, 1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries, according to Urgewald’s tally, which uses data from the Global Coal Plant Tracker portal. The new plants would expand the world’s coal-fired power capacity by 43 percent.

The fleet of new coal plants would make it virtually impossible to meet the goals set in the Paris climate accord, which aims to keep the increase in global temperatures from preindustrial levels below 3.6 degrees Fahrenheit."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/c...e.html?mcubz=1

But of course it's "the enemy within" pulling out of the Paris accords that's going to bring the world to environmental armageddon.

[SecondBase]

Originally Posted by NevisDog

Above news is from 2016. Try reading this year's news:

"China is canceling plans to build more than 100 coal-fired power plants, seeking to rein in runaway, wasteful investment in the sector while moving the country away from one of the dirtiest forms of electricity generation,..."



Are views expressed here being drawn from some 'climate denial' source, or is US news media just full of this nonsense?

And here is why they had to cancel the coal plants.



IMO Chinese govt will be the first to outlaw new gas cars.

From CNN-

China wants to ban gas and diesel cars

By Sherisse Pham September 11, 2017: 1:18 PM ET
China is preparing to put the brakes on gasoline and diesel cars.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/11/news...ban/index.html

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by Exile

...You'll be pleased to know that I took your advice and looked to this year's news, and one of your "nonsense" US news media sources to boot (and one of the most liberal ones at that)...

Uhu, look at any US news outlet and you get one view, read the (truly liberal? left wing? progressive?) overseas news outlets (Guardian, Greenpeace) and you get the exact opposite: I wonder who is most gullible here - we all seem to quote from news media - the absolute worst possible source of information on SCIENCE!!! Remember, everyone has an agenda.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by SecondBase

That's the beauty of it Newhaul !! It comes from, get this, your own roof. Up on your roof, only if you choose it in this free country, you have Mr Musk's MAGIC solar roof tiles with a lifetime guarantee !!!!!

So all those little photons you've been bouncing away every day will instead now convert to electrons and go down through (well along) a little copper tube into the power wall.

The tiles fill the battery up every day.

The battery (power wall) fills the car (Tesla although that new electric Porsche looks pretty good too) every day.

The battery also recharges Kenomac's kids battery powered unicorn and runs your coffee maker to boot.

And in a little while Mr Musk is going to have more money than GE.

I'm just hoping that Tesla got ONE set of roof tiles and a power wall installed somewhere in Puerto Rico before the storm. You have to see how happy that guy's wife is -- "yes honey the TV news is right just this once, the Puerto Rico electrical grid won't be back for 4-6 months. I'm so glad we installed that powerwall two weeks ago cause I have no time for a gas station line. Can you pass me another cold beer? [emoji482]

If they didn't get a powerwall into Puerto Rico beforehand they should fly one in right now as a gift and livestream that sh@%^= for us. "Over the next 6 months we are going to livestream two Puerto Rican families who live next to each other. One family was given a solar roof and powerwall and a Tesla. The family that lost the coin flip will do without these items."

All you need is one solar house up on a hill in Puerto Rico with the lights on and everyone else will figure it out.

I suggest you research that a bit more my friend . you do realize the damage to the environment that making solar panels does right. ( look it up ) and how about the same issue with manufacture of the batteries in the power wall.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by SecondBase

What's the source providing "consensus" on that one? My understanding is there isn't even scientific agreement on which decades the lia included.

You really need to learn how to use Google appropriately.
Volcanic origin for Little Ice Age. The Little Ice Age was caused by the cooling effect of massive volcanic eruptions, and sustained by changes in Arctic ice cover, scientists conclude. An international research team studied ancient plants from Iceland and Canada, and sediments carried by glaciers.
Volcanic origin for Little Ice Age - BBC News

[SV THIRD DAY]

I just watched the new Wonder Woman movie....and guys....that was mucho mas entertaining than this.

what will kill you first...CO2 or Boredom?

[michaelratinter]

The Fairness Doctrine was eliminated by Reagan in 1987. Elimination gave rise to right wing talk radio, i.e., Limbaugh et al.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by michaelratinter

The Fairness Doctrine was eliminated by Reagan in 1987. Elimination gave rise to right wing talk radio, i.e., Limbaugh et al.

Getting rid of government control of course is a good thing more freedom more ideas more discussion more voices less regulation

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by SecondBase

I didn't know they made battery operated unicorns !!

It'll actually come from the power wall in YOUR garage my friend ! Should you choose to buy one... It's a free country.

Originally Posted by SecondBase

That's the beauty of it Newhaul !! It comes from, get this, your own roof. Up on your roof, only if you choose it in this free country, you have Mr Musk's MAGIC solar roof tiles with a lifetime guarantee !!!!!

So all those little photons you've been bouncing away every day will instead now convert to electrons and go down through (well along) a little copper tube into the power wall.

The tiles fill the battery up every day.

The battery (power wall) fills the car (Tesla although that new electric Porsche looks pretty good too) every day.

The battery also recharges Kenomac's kids battery powered unicorn and runs your coffee maker to boot.

And in a little while Mr Musk is going to have more money than GE.

I'm just hoping that Tesla got ONE set of roof tiles and a power wall installed somewhere in Puerto Rico before the storm. You have to see how happy that guy's wife is -- "yes honey the TV news is right just this once, the Puerto Rico electrical grid won't be back for 4-6 months. I'm so glad we installed that powerwall two weeks ago cause I have no time for a gas station line. Can you pass me another cold beer? [emoji482]

If they didn't get a powerwall into Puerto Rico beforehand they should fly one in right now as a gift and livestream that sh@%^= for us. "Over the next 6 months we are going to livestream two Puerto Rican families who live next to each other. One family was given a solar roof and powerwall and a Tesla. The family that lost the coin flip will do without these items."

All you need is one solar house up on a hill in Puerto Rico with the lights on and everyone else will figure it out.

And I suppose in your magical land land of Mr Musk, there will only be sunny days? No cloudy, rainy or snowy days allowed... the sun will always shine down upon the magical solar panels to power the mystical "power wall."

It's hard to imagine people actually believe this stuff being a long time owner/user of two large solar arrays to power a home and business and now a Solbian powered boat. Good luck getting to work in a Tesla during a rainy week in Cali.

I suppose in your mystical magical Mr. Musk Land, everyone will be able to afford a Tesla, power wall and solar roof tiles? Will the money for all this also magically come out of the wall socket?

[ski69sail]

This has turned out to be a great thread, But as usual the climate change deniers would rather regurgitate propaganda instead of doing a little research.

I am shore my comment will ignite a barrage of ill informed reply's......But just wait a minute,,, Im happy to listen to there hostility if they take the time to watch this documentary.
I was very impressed with the content although it is a bit like writing your own eulogy.


The Ocean Agency - Chasing Coral - theoceanagency.org‎
Adwww.theoceanagency.org/featurefilm‎

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by ski69sail

This has turned out to be a great thread, But as usual the climate change deniers would rather regurgitate propaganda instead of doing a little research.

I am shore my comment will ignite a barrage of ill informed reply's......But just wait a minute,,, Im happy to listen to there hostility if they take the time to watch this documentary.
I was very impressed with the content although it is a bit like writing your own eulogy.


The Ocean Agency - Chasing Coral - theoceanagency.org‎
Adwww.theoceanagency.org/featurefilm‎

I think you need to review some of the " propaganda" I linked to it is called peer reviewed scientific datum. Greenland glaciers are apparently growing . and we will have to watch for a couple more years but it seems that Arctic sea ice may be rebounding. I posted those links within the last couple pages.