Boat Yards Hostile to Do-It-Yourselfers

[Dennis.G]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes if I have an expensive bit of gear, takes time to get it, and the expensive labor, going and in position,

a $100 per hour charge should, and usually does, translate to "$100 minimum"

Just because you live your life ultra-frugally, does not mean businesses are going to charge less than what they can / need to, to make it worth their while being in business.

Clear communications certainly is key though, and it cuts both ways.

If in doubt, ask for clarification and get it in writing.

This is so standard I can only blame the boat owner for ignorance. Most any lift or crane usage is going to have a minimum charge. Usually first hour minimum. Sometimes even have to pay first hour plus a setup fee if a large crane.

[SVPP]

[This is really bad advice. If you refuse to pay, they'll file a mechanics lien, hold the boat in the yard and charge you lay days. You'll have to win in court to get out of paying for the initial charge and the lay days in the months it would take to get into court.

I'm not saying roll over and give in but you don't want the boat held hostage. First, the OP doesn't have any proof what the manager said to him other than his word. Look at the contract and be sure whatever you did falls within the WRITTEN work you are authorized to do. May have been manini work but if you aren't allowed to do it in the haul lout contract there is no leg to stand on. The tine and effort to POSSIBLY win a Small Claims Court case will be way way over the disputed additional charge.

I've been in your position with yards a couple of times. Once I convinced the yard to see reason, the other I had to pay and just badmouth Kona Gentry Marine at Honokohau for ripping me off. In both cases there wasn't any option other than to satisfy the yard's charge and get the boat back in the water. You'll have to make a decision if this is the 'hill you want to die on.']

Roverhi makes some good points. Agree if the contract has different terms than where agreed verbally then you may not want to die on this hill.

But I would. Just remember that means you will be paying a liar and a cheat.

I don't think paying on your credit card and disputing the charges is a good idea. The fact you didn't agree with what you were paying for isn't a reason for dispute it later. You made the transaction knowing the value of what you were getting so you need to own it.

For what it is worth , as stated I still wouldn't pay him. It s the only ethical right thing to do. Yep am dying on that hill - but it will be doing it with a mutually painful death. Taking it on the chin and moving on reinforces this behaviour which sadly occurs a lot at the waterfront.

Good luck with the resolution.

[alctel]

Is this pretty common? All the Canadian yards I've been in you can do your own work - although if you are doing bottom stuff you either have to tape off the whole area, wet sand or use a sander with a vac attached.

[john61ct]

Yes some areas of the US barely any DIY yards left at all.

Not just environment protection, IMO more about maximizing profit margins.

Which of course is king, how it works.

Coastal real estate near population centers is also just too valuable.

[Scotty Kiwi]

Yards here have tried to justify this type of behavior using insurance and enviromental protection reasons, amongst others.

Doesn't mean it's not a rip off.

But do they play this game consistently? eg allow people to come in saying "yes you can do your own work", deliberately not defining it closely, and then saying "Oh No, that only allowed for "A" and "B", but for C, we must charge you.

If you're annoyed enough, get a mate to phone in to book his boat in for a similar set of tasks to yours, and if Chris is non specific, then have you mate clarify saying "with every clean theres always a bit of touchup to the glass - is that fine?". If the answer is No - we must charge extra, then mate will want to know why, If the answer is yes, that's fine, then, once mate talks to you, you've got grounds for dispute and better grounds to politely threaten a Yelp review, on the basis of you conversation with Mate.

[john61ct]

politely threaten? hmm

Believe me, owners are very aware of review sites, forums and social media, no more than an oblique hint is enough for whatever leverage he'll allow.

To overtly threaten this could very easily backfire IMO.

Keep everything friendly and nice, up until you and your boat are gone out of reach.

There are many more expensive lessons coming in your life, if you're in a hole first step is stop digging.

[billknny]

Amazing that nobody asked you, “WHAT DID YOUR CONTRACT SAY?”

Anytime you use a boat yard you sign a contract BEFORE your boat is hauled that specifies the terms and conditions of the work and charges. If there was nothing in that about extra charges to DIY then you have a reason for complaint. But... I’ll go dollars to doughnuts that was clearly specified in what you signed—and did not read.

If there was no written contract, then you got what you deserved.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by meridian28

Pay by credit card, move the boat then dispute the charge

The marina told you the price and you signed the receipt.

When the marina provides the signed receipt, you still get to pay and now you've lost what little leverage you had because the marina has your money.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by thruska

Who was not clear ? Seems to me the yard guy was not clear! He was not clear about what he said the customer could or could not do, nor did he get specific with a signed agreement stating such parameters.
Bad procedure on yard guy , guilty !!!!

May be bad customer service but since the OP did not specifically state he was doing fiberglass work, he likely will lose.

They effectively have possession of the boat so they have the OP until he pays or by some long shot wins a court case.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by billknny

Amazing that nobody asked you, “WHAT DID YOUR CONTRACT SAY?”

Anytime you use a boat yard you sign a contract BEFORE your boat is hauled that specifies the terms and conditions of the work and charges. If there was nothing in that about extra charges to DIY then you have a reason for complaint. But... I’ll go dollars to doughnuts that was clearly specified in what you signed—and did not read.

If there was no written contract, then you got what you deserved.

Bingo...a verbal contract is worth as much as the paper it was written on.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Baba Buoy

The Windward Yacht Boatyard in Marina Del Rey is bottom painting my sailboat. I ask Chris, the boss, if I could do work concurrent with painting. He said yes but no outside contractors. While boat was drying after pressure wash, I changed the prop, changed a speed transducer and patching a small bit of damage on bottom of rudder. Chris came out in afternoon and said he was going to charge me one day extra fee (over $300), because his workers did not do the work. He claimed I didn't tell him about the small fiberglass work. The damage was discovered only that day. I had paid "rent" for the painting I don't think I should be double charged. My work did not impact their paint schedule or resulted in more time on the hard or used outside contractors. Small claims court?

I don't know that yard or have read all the replies, but usually it is a given, that Shipyards do all the work Below the waterline unless expressly approved in writing.
Even then, many will ask for a Royalty for subcontractors working in their yard.

Don't burn your bridges, you may be forced to haul out there again for some emergency.

[davewtsnape]

Take your business elsewhere.

Point-out to the owner that he can charge you $300 dollars now and lose many hundreds, even thousands, in future business, or he can just suck it up and get over it.

Most boatyards in the UK allow DIY and allow contractors as long as they are registered and have the appropriate insurance. It's a win-win.

[chowdan]

Originally Posted by Espiros

This is the best way to deal with these types of situations.
Your card company will deal with them way better than doing it yourself.

I also agree on this. I would definitely pay it, walk away and then go to the CC company.

Also after receiving my boat and getting out of under his thumb, I'd tell him that he's going to lose a lot of business over this due to reviewing sites then let the cc company handle the dispute

[Smokeys Kitchen]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

It's three hundred bucks, for God's sake. Small claims will take more in time and filing fees than that. Not to mention, you probably won't win. Take this as a lesson learned, pay the bill and move on. Be sure to let Chris know however, that you will certainly never be back and will leave him a scathing Yelp review. He might drop the $300 fee, you never know.

Late to the thread - but totally agree here with fstbttms as I have been to small claims twice. Lost once and and prevailed once. Even when prevailing, it was only principle that I won; I did not get paid. Engaging any other process to collect would have been more expensive than the amount, not to mention the time it had already taken me.

I have, however, gotten charges reversed twice when, after a disagreement with the service provider, I wrote a bad online review, stuck strictly to the facts, and I notified the provider of the writing. Things got resolved shortly afterwards in my favor.

BTW - I know you do not live up here, but there are at least a half dozen yards in the PNW that I can think of offhand that will let you do work yourself. I think the SoCal yard only issue (or other locations mentioned in the thread) is a local thing.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by billknny

Amazing that nobody asked you, “WHAT DID YOUR CONTRACT SAY?”

Anytime you use a boat yard you sign a contract BEFORE your boat is hauled that specifies the terms and conditions of the work and charges. If there was nothing in that about extra charges to DIY then you have a reason for complaint. But... I’ll go dollars to doughnuts that was clearly specified in what you signed—and did not read.

If there was no written contract, then you got what you deserved.

I have to agree with that. Compared to so many contracts can be completely full of legalize and a law degree from Harvard to understand, I find yard contracts usually easy to discern. Just check the contract and see what your options are.

I agree to keep things on an even keel as it were - yards that allow any DIY at all below the waterline are becoming fewer and fewer.

If you are there for a period and off and on over a few years its possible the yard may give you a break on future charges... but they want to get to know you first.