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Old 08-04-2013, 16:29   #46
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

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I read it as 10metres chain and rope rode...
Whatever it was it wasn't right if it chafed through in that harbor. There is no single answer on anchor choice or anchor rode choice that is perfect in every situation. But, I am rather discouraged that people coming down the coast don't learn what they need in Mexico. I can't remember ever seeing a boat aground or ashore due to an anchor rode being chafed through, and now we read about at least three of these in the last few months in Mexico! I don't think I saw a single boat down in the Caribbean, Panama, or Colombia that wasn't on all chain.
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Old 08-04-2013, 16:29   #47
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

Quite right. My bad... It said 10 meters chain and then rode.

That makes it a bit more surprising that it chafed through, but of course possible.

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Old 08-04-2013, 16:36   #48
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

cannot be surprising in the area here. what would be surprising would be if it didnt chafe through here. these are not flat rocks we are talking. these are rock rocks like in mountains. we are sailing here on mountain tops. the rocks are sharp and rocky. and some are tall like the almost 6 ft one in la cruz anchorage i was anchored next to.
the entire west coast looks like this, but yáll are more like baja more north--where banderas bay is there are sierra madre mountains. yes the rocks are large and sharp and rocky. you see some as you sail south--coming out of the ocean. they are everywhere. just be aware of this and please be safe.
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Old 08-04-2013, 17:00   #49
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Whatever it was it wasn't right if it chafed through in that harbor. There is no single answer on anchor choice or anchor rode choice that is perfect in every situation. But, I am rather discouraged that people coming down the coast don't learn what they need in Mexico. I can't remember ever seeing a boat aground or ashore due to an anchor rode being chafed through, and now we read about at least three of these in the last few months in Mexico! I don't think I saw a single boat down in the Caribbean, Panama, or Colombia that wasn't on all chain.
Well, we last cruised in MExico in 1990, but that year we saw several such incidents. One in particular sticks in my mind: a Catalina 36 from southern california chafed through his rope rode and ended up on some shore rocks in La Paz harbour. Pulled off without serious damage. A couple of weeks later, the same thing happened again, but with more damage. He disappeared from our cruising area then, so I don't know if he ever bought more chain.

In my post above I said that if you are going cruising you should have an all chain rode. For those who say that they have cruised successfully with rope, well, you just haven't been in enough anchorages yet! As cruisers, we visit places where the bottom is of unknown character... and no, the charts and the guides don't really have enough accurate detail to help you. The chance that your rope will eventually come into contact with a abrasive bottom is so large that going without chain is foolish... in my not so humble opinion, based on a lot of years cruising in strange-to-me waters.

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Old 08-04-2013, 17:18   #50
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

The fact that there are anchorages with fouled or rocky bottoms that are a danger to rope does not prove that there are not anchorages where the bottom is known to be sandy and safe for rope. Logic, sir...

Many boats, especially catamarans, travel with rope/chain rodes. Would they be safer, or at least able to anchor safely in places the rope would be at risk? No doubt. But there are a lot of them out there.

As for myself, as noted I have both all chain and rope/chain rode. I used both extensively going down the west coast, across the top of South America, and up the islands. As I said, no problems for me. But I am careful, and I used chain when in any doubt. And sometimes I used chain simply because the other boats in the anchorage were on chain and I would have swung differently if I were on rope. Still, there were many times that rope was the right, and safe, answer.

That said, the main reason for choosing rope was to avoid the effort required to haul up anchor and chain by hand in the tropical heat. Once in the UK I installed an electric windlass and never looked back. I don't think I have used the rope/chain since. My recommendation to all cruisers is to buy all chain for the primary rode, matched with an electric windlass. And then you can have the mate up on the foredeck without feeling guilty (otherwise you probably should feel guilty :-) ). But I am not a chain snob - rope/chain is a fine, seamanlike solution in some situations.

Greg
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Old 08-04-2013, 18:32   #51
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

If I recall, the last boat that went aground there had its rode parted just under the bow. Anyone know how far down this one parted? Going off the OP's description that dinghies are driving around madly enough that 2 of them did not even see the towing effort in progress, I wonder if this boat and others had their rode parted by dinghy props.
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Old 08-04-2013, 18:51   #52
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Originally Posted by sww914 View Post
I talked to him this afternoon. I had met him already, nice guy but not an experienced cruiser. He said that he had two anchors out, both with ten meters of chain and then rode. He left for a few hours and came home to his boat on the rocks and a swarm of dinghies trying to save it.
He said that these 4 months of cruising have been the best time of his life.
Aha! The guy did not know about the rules:

1. In 99% of all cases, use one anchor only. If your anchor drags, buy a better or bigger one instead of using two anchors.

2. Use all chain. No "but's", no "If's", all good strong chain.

3. Use a nylon snubber.

4. Use a windlass.

5. Use a chain stopper or whatever to prevent the chain loading the windlass when the snubber gives.

And people will ignore these rules again and again, and keep trashing their boats on the rocks again and again, and people like zeehag and me keep repeating this again and again, and that leads to starting this sentence again. You can already see it, people saying rope rode is okay. That is one rule broken so increased risk. The more rules you break, the more risk, just like Russian roulette. How many rules did this guy break? All of them may be?
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Old 08-04-2013, 19:56   #53
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

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Originally Posted by Kettlewell View Post
Someone further up the thread pointed out one of the important lessons of incidents like this (other than using chain in places like Mexico), the need to have a light kedge anchor ready to go at a moment's notice that can be taken way out in a dinghy in a situation like this. As this other poster pointed out quite intelligently, many people going aground think about starting the engine, or getting a tow, when often the first and best thing to do is to get an anchor way out towards good water to stabilize the situation, and hopefully to pull your boat back off. Something like a Fortress on mostly rope rode is ideal for this.
This observation by Kettlewell is most important. I carry and use up to 300' of chain on my main anchor, but I keep a 300' nylon rode with a short 15' of chain that is available if I need to carry an anchor out for a kedge. It's extremly difficult to lay an anchor and 300' of chain in a dinghy in a chop and head to deeper water to set a kedge, but not too difficult to do the same with 300' of nylon.
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Old 08-04-2013, 19:57   #54
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

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4. Use a windlass.
I break that rule all the time with no problems. I enjoy the workout, the manual windlass sits silent.
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Old 08-04-2013, 20:10   #55
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

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I break that rule all the time with no problems. I enjoy the workout, the manual windlass sits silent.
I'm not understanding the "sits silent" thing. I follow Jedi's rules, but I do use a manual windlass instead of an electric windlass. I often find the manual windlass is far enough of a workout for me. Especially if I need to take a few attempts at anchoring,-.....pull it all up, move and set again! There's no way I'm repeatedly pulling up many feet of all chain and anchor bare-handed! Is this what you do?
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Old 08-04-2013, 22:01   #56
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

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I break that rule all the time with no problems. I enjoy the workout, the manual windlass sits silent.
Bet'cha haven't pulled up your anchor in 60' of depth !
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Old 08-04-2013, 23:18   #57
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

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I'm not understanding the "sits silent" thing. I follow Jedi's rules, but I do use a manual windlass instead of an electric windlass. I often find the manual windlass is far enough of a workout for me. Especially if I need to take a few attempts at anchoring,-.....pull it all up, move and set again! There's no way I'm repeatedly pulling up many feet of all chain and anchor bare-handed! Is this what you do?
Yeah pretty much. I think I've windlassed it up maybe 50% of the time once it's hanging vertically because then I've got the weight of the anchor as well. But sometimes even when vertical and definitely when just pulling chain off the seabed I do it hand over hand.

I sit on my butt and try to follow about the same body mechanics as a classic strength training move: Cable Twisting Seated Row

As long as you can keep your body position right and it's not too much weight for you in my view it's the same as any other exercise.

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Bet'cha haven't pulled up your anchor in 60' of depth !
~40's about as deep as I've had to go so far, thankfully. On the sportfisher I worked on we'd drop in 100'-200' depths with nearly 1:1 scope but definitely a windlass for that.
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Old 09-04-2013, 00:44   #58
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Okay, okay, if you're really really macho, then you can break rule #4 until your back gives out and then it's crying time and windlass time and rule #4
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Old 09-04-2013, 02:00   #59
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

Aside from my disagreement with rule #2 (chain only), based on a lot of experience using rope/chain rode in many different anchorages from Canada to the UK, I would agree with the other rules.

However, I would add the word "electric" to rule #4. I had a beautiful bronze manual windlass on deck before I left cruising; it was marginally useful. It was double-acting: pushing the handle forward pulled in 3 inches of chain, then back another 3 inches. So bringing in 200 feet of chain resulted in 400 round trips. I would be wrecked, in a pool of sweat, by the time the anchor was up. And in a deep anchorage with a breeze there was no choice but to hand-over-hand once the anchor was off the bottom - cranking was way too slow. With the electric windlass and controls in the cockpit things are sooo much better now.

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Old 09-04-2013, 20:36   #60
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Re: Boat Went up on the Beach Last Night

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Originally Posted by CarinaPDX View Post
The fact that there are anchorages with fouled or rocky bottoms that are a danger to rope does not prove that there are not anchorages where the bottom is known to be sandy and safe for rope. Logic, sir...

Many boats, especially catamarans, travel with rope/chain rodes. Would they be safer, or at least able to anchor safely in places the rope would be at risk? No doubt. But there are a lot of them out there.

As for myself, as noted I have both all chain and rope/chain rode. I used both extensively going down the west coast, across the top of South America, and up the islands. As I said, no problems for me. But I am careful, and I used chain when in any doubt. And sometimes I used chain simply because the other boats in the anchorage were on chain and I would have swung differently if I were on rope. Still, there were many times that rope was the right, and safe, answer.

That said, the main reason for choosing rope was to avoid the effort required to haul up anchor and chain by hand in the tropical heat. Once in the UK I installed an electric windlass and never looked back. I don't think I have used the rope/chain since. My recommendation to all cruisers is to buy all chain for the primary rode, matched with an electric windlass. And then you can have the mate up on the foredeck without feeling guilty (otherwise you probably should feel guilty :-) ). But I am not a chain snob - rope/chain is a fine, seamanlike solution in some situations.

Greg
The only safe advise for a cruising newcomber is all chain primary rode. No if/no buts just do it.
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