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Old 05-01-2017, 16:57   #16
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Re: Best country to flag

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Originally Posted by Maka View Post
My Boat is a USCG registered vessel.
Technically it belongs to the US Government.
The logic is that a foreign country is less likely to seize US Property. Like happened in Fiji during the Coup, where they seized all foreign vessels in their ports.
Another advantage is your home port can be anywhere in the US.
Billings Montana, Cheyenne Wyoming, Tucson Arizona ,,,, anywhere.
Not expensive to do.
What ????

That's got to be one of the weirdest interpretations of vessel registration that I've ever seen!

By the same logic, you must "belong" to the US Government
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Old 05-01-2017, 17:05   #17
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pirate Re: Best country to flag

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
What ????

That's got to be one of the weirdest interpretations of vessel registration that I've ever seen!

By the same logic, you must "belong" to the US Government
I believe that is a fact.. for tax if for nothing else.. where ever in the world they are..
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Old 05-01-2017, 17:14   #18
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Re: Best country to flag

I'll third Langkawi, recently went through the process with the guy that purchased my old boat,easy and cheap, you can do it yourself or use an agent. The officials made the process a pleasure. I was planning on registering my next vessel there but purchased one that already had Australian rego.

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Old 05-01-2017, 17:17   #19
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Re: Best country to flag

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
What ????

That's got to be one of the weirdest interpretations of vessel registration that I've ever seen!

By the same logic, you must "belong" to the US Government
Technically he is right. Likewise the state owns your car. That's why when you buy a new car, the Certificate of Origin - the true and exclusive title - goes to the .... State. You get a "Warranty Deed Title". The same goes for your house and property underneath it.
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Old 05-01-2017, 17:25   #20
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Re: Best country to flag

Trumpland......great for tax evaders
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Originally Posted by Builderdood1 View Post
I currently am flagged/registered in Panama.
Looking for a better country to register in which has little or no import cost, doesn't require you or your boat to be present and has a reasonable fee.
Panama's fees are getting out of hand.

Thank you for input..
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Old 05-01-2017, 17:29   #21
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Re: Best country to flag

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Originally Posted by RPZ View Post
Technically he is right. Likewise the state owns your car. That's why when you buy a new car, the Certificate of Origin - the true and exclusive title - goes to the .... State. You get a "Warranty Deed Title". The same goes for your house and property underneath it.
Geez, I knew that the US was screwed up, but I didn't realise it was that bad.

Are you telling me that there is no such thing as "private property" in the Land of the Free? That's worse than the old Soviet Union.
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Old 05-01-2017, 17:34   #22
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Re: Best country to flag

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Geez, I knew that the US was screwed up, but I didn't realise it was that bad.

Are you telling me that there is no such thing as "private property" in the Land of the Free? That's worse than the old Soviet Union.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet.

Certificates of origin are taken by the DMV for new vehicles because it confirms dealers selling a new vehicle that hadn't been illegally imported and allows the new car owner to get title and registration. Has nothing to do with ownership. Subsequent owners get the title recorded by getting the proper owner to sign over the title. If the government "technically" owned the property, where's the instrument that gives the user some right to collect money in consideration for transferring exclusive use to another?

Likewise USCG documentation does not make the vessel owned by the US. You don't have any lease or other agreement that transfers responsibility for maintaining the property, taxes and fees owed from USG supposed owner to you the occupant. You sink the boat with oil and diesel and the USG as owner doesn't magically become responsible got cleaning it up.

It's nonsense.
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Old 05-01-2017, 17:38   #23
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Re: Best country to flag

Its been incremental since about 1913, and really picked up steam after WW2. Most people have simply been born into it and think that's the way its always been and don't know any better. Or they have been castrated and think its OK anyway.

Same way they accept paying taxes on the fruits of their *personal* labor, their car every year, their houses and property etc. Being told what they can ingest in their own bodies, how they raise their kids, what medical care they can get, etc.
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Old 05-01-2017, 17:40   #24
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Re: Best country to flag

You're right. It IS nonsense. If YOU, the buyer have the Cert of Origin, it proves its your property and has not been stolen. A Warranty Deed Title is not an exclusive title.
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Old 05-01-2017, 18:12   #25
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Re: Best country to flag

From the USCG

"Vessel documentation is a national form of registration. It is one of the oldest functions of Government, dating back to the 11th Act of the First Congress. Documentation provides conclusive evidence of nationality for international purposes, provides for unhindered commerce between the states, and admits vessels to certain restricted trades, such as coastwise trade and the fisheries. Since 1920, vessel financing has been enhanced through the availability of preferred mortgages on documented vessels."

Additionally, During times of War they can seize your boat and use it for purposes of War. That may be the only downside to USCG registration IMHO.

But in a foreign port .. it can make the difference between keeping your boat or losing it.
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Old 05-01-2017, 18:28   #26
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Re: Best country to flag

I am not saying can it can not be advantageous, but the simple fact is that government registration, and any form of "license" (permission) gives the government or state a third party interest. That is just a fact and can be traced all the way back to when the United States came into being. The incremental change of compulsion in many aspects is there, not on the internet - although the internet does make much of it more freely available.
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Old 05-01-2017, 18:32   #27
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Re: Best country to flag

I never used to question ownership, I grew up believing and assuming you owned what you own. Today I'm not as sure, im not saying we don't own our property but in my mind things are changing rapidly and rules get implemented under the radar.
Google bank bail ins G20 Brisbane. If things go a little pear shape in the banking system is your deposited money your money? Look at Cypress.
Anyway I digress.

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Old 06-01-2017, 00:49   #28
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Re: Best country to flag

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P.S. In the end I didn't use them only due to the fact an Australian is required by law to be registered in Australia if leaving an overseas port - otherwise I would have used them.

Not quite sure what you mean here? By Australian do you or the boat. And leaving an overseas port or for an overseas port (from Australia).
I was ready to sign & send all docs to the isle of man registry when someone on cruisers forum helpfully pointed out that the issue that Aust law forbids an Australian to sail an Australian owned (or majority owned) boat from a foreign port unless it is on the Australian register. The fine for doing so is AUD1,000 per day. I agreed with some CF comments at the time that the risk of being fined while out of Australian waters was low but I didn't want to take the risk or to have to re-register the boat in Austra,ia down the track (I spent hours going through the relevant legislation looking for a way around it but I believe there is no legal way to do that).
Lachlan
P.S. If you have dual citizenship or if the boat is at least half owned by a foreign national I believe you can get around this by registering under the "other" nationality.
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Old 06-01-2017, 03:14   #29
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Re: Best country to flag

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Originally Posted by LACHLANC View Post
I was ready to sign & send all docs to the isle of man registry when someone on cruisers forum helpfully pointed out that the issue that Aust law forbids an Australian to sail an Australian owned (or majority owned) boat from a foreign port unless it is on the Australian register. The fine for doing so is AUD1,000 per day. I agreed with some CF comments at the time that the risk of being fined while out of Australian waters was low but I didn't want to take the risk or to have to re-register the boat in Austra,ia down the track (I spent hours going through the relevant legislation looking for a way around it but I believe there is no legal way to do that).
Lachlan
P.S. If you have dual citizenship or if the boat is at least half owned by a foreign national I believe you can get around this by registering under the "other" nationality.
Got to be 1st of April joke. Australia has no dominance over foreign vessels sailng foreign waters, who ever were aboard..
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Old 06-01-2017, 04:15   #30
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Re: Best country to flag

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Originally Posted by leftbrainstuff View Post
What is your reason for using a flag of convenience versus your home country?
Because its convenient?

In some cases FOC can save you from all sorts of problems at all sorts of levels...

I know a canadian who chose to register in South Africa... he's never been there... never going there.. so dunno why...

UK Red Ensign is now an FOC.
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