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Old 03-12-2016, 10:59   #121
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Polux, really we have no idea how much diesel these boats have been burning in order to be where they are so until the "race" is over, it doesn't make any difference in their position. Huge times of no wind absolutely must have put some time on their motors.
The lack of wind happened only on the boats that chose the South course, the ones on the North got almost always a decent wind.

Anyway, as I said I will correct that when engine hours are published, but my experience, following this transat for many years, tells me that the fastest boat use very little or don't use at all their engines.
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:08   #122
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Doubt the full hours on the diesels will be declared. Hasnt happened before so why start now...

Having just rerun the multhulls on the tracker the lagoon 620 in 3rd in particular looks pretty suss
I don't know why you say that. Would you do that? I am sure you would not do that.

They all have do deliver a statement where they have to swear that the engine hours are correct. Why would anyone on the cruising class would lie about that? This is not a race, why do you think they are dishonest to the point of making false swearing?

On the racing class the hours are checked and all the crew has to sware that they did not use the engine for propulsion.
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:34   #123
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

121 posts analysing a mob of people motor sailing - wow, must be cold in that Northern Hemisphere winter with not much else to do
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:49   #124
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Continuing where I left, the next group of boats with interesting performance is leaded by a X 41

follows a X 562

a Oyster 575

a Jeanneau 54DS

followed by a Hylas 54

a catana 47

A Grand Soleil 50 (older model)

another Oyster 575

a Lagoon 620

and a Hanse 575
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:01   #125
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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121 posts analysing a mob of people motor sailing - wow, must be cold in that Northern Hemisphere winter with not much else to do
Well, when you cruise you motor sail too. This is not a race.

Anyway you are going to see that most of the fastest boats didn't use the engine and it is going to be interesting to see from the fastest what were the ones that used the engine.

Some boats have a huge tankage, some have a little one. A Dufour 385 has a little tankage, nothing like a Lagoon 620, for instance.The Dufour is not able to motor much, the Lagoon can but that does not mean that he had done that. We will see that when the engine hours are posted.
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Old 03-12-2016, 12:35   #126
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

At only 12nm of that Hanse 575, almost side by side sail two boats, just a bit ahead a Dufour 385 and a Bavaria 50

Bavaria 50

an older Gieffe 51, a Lagoon 620

a Moody 54

and a Leopard 48


The Leopard 48 is at about 717nm from the arrival while a Prout 39 is at 1587nm and there are some that stopped on Cabo Verde or leaved Las Palmas later that are at more than 1800nm.
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Old 03-12-2016, 17:41   #127
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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I don't know why you say that. Would you do that? I am sure you would not do that.

They all have do deliver a statement where they have to swear that the engine hours are correct. Why would anyone on the cruising class would lie about that? This is not a race, why do you think they are dishonest to the point of making false swearing?

On the racing class the hours are checked and all the crew has to sware that they did not use the engine for propulsion.
I say it because it happens. I wouldnt do it but then I wouldnt go in the ARC either. Who knows why they do it but some clearly do. Where it gets interesting is if they wind up on the podium in front of a boat that was sailed the whole way

The one where a fuss was made about it that I know of was 4 years ago -

Catana 47 "Rafale" on the podium - 3rd place in the ARC rally! - Multihull Solutions

Its why you cant put much faith in the results except in the race division. The 1st and 2nd multis are clearly being sailed with plenty of gybing, took the north course for wind etc. The lagoon 62 looks suss - rhumb line the whole way, little variation in speeds compared to those around it etc.
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Old 03-12-2016, 18:07   #128
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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I say it because it happens. I wouldnt do it but then I wouldnt go in the ARC either. Who knows why they do it but some clearly do. Where it gets interesting is if they wind up on the podium in front of a boat that was sailed the whole way

The one where a fuss was made about it that I know of was 4 years ago -

Catana 47 "Rafale" on the podium - 3rd place in the ARC rally! - Multihull Solutions

Its why you cant put much faith in the results except in the race division. The 1st and 2nd multis are clearly being sailed with plenty of gybing, took the north course for wind etc. The lagoon 62 looks suss - rhumb line the whole way, little variation in speeds compared to those around it etc.
That's a brand making publicity and they are talking about compensated results. I am interested only in real time results.

I don't say that one or two will not be sailors without honour and be the kind of guys that will break a swearing but I think that generalizing it makes no sense. They are fellow sailors and cruisers, not different than you or me and I don't think it is right to assume that the majority are the kind of guys that lie under oath.

Anyway if I understand correctly the only difference between the racing class and the cruising class in what regards engine use is that it is not allowed at all for propulsion on the racing class and that it will not be only the captain swearing about the use of the engine, but all members of the crew.
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Old 03-12-2016, 18:12   #129
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

There are actualy two Lagoon 620's that have been on similar courses and speeds since the start of the race. Having seen these boat's it's very hard to believe they can make any progress with less than 15 knots of wind.

In regards to the motoring, read the blogs these guys are posting. Almost all discuss motoring and that they are very low on fuel. And Polux, I've been watching the race and the North route, which also had low wind speeds at the start.

If they post the hours motoring I don't know where because it's not on the web site. As an FYI though, I've got no problem motoring if need be. Palarran has a range of 1000 miles under motor and if we need to get across so my crew can get back to work, were going to motor. Hopefully the wind will cooperate next year.
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Old 03-12-2016, 18:14   #130
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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That's a brand making publicity and they are talking about compensated results. I am interested only in real time results.
I wonder, do you really think everyone (anyone) who posts on this thread really gives a crap what your interested in? The constant posts here and on the Atlantic 57 thread make it appear that you do. We don't. Take a breather.
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Old 03-12-2016, 18:36   #131
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

The high low preference may have to do with (any) dinghy racing background.

I nearly always drive from the low side upwind in light winds. It is as if I could feel the boat better this way. Which is nonsense when the boat weighs say 40 tonnes.

Still, a habit is a habit. Nothing reasonable to argue for or against. Like not painting a boat black or twin helms in 30 ft weekend boats.

In the pictures it just looks better, more powerful and macho, when the OWNER stands on the high side. I bet boats advertised this way sell for marginally higher margins ... ;-)

b.
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Old 03-12-2016, 18:58   #132
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
I wonder, do you really think everyone (anyone) who posts on this thread really gives a crap what your interested in? The constant posts here and on the Atlantic 57 thread make it appear that you do. We don't. Take a breather.
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There are actualy two Lagoon 620's that have been on similar courses and speeds since the start of the race. Having seen these boat's it's very hard to believe they can make any progress with less than 15 knots of wind.

In regards to the motoring, read the blogs these guys are posting. Almost all discuss motoring and that they are very low on fuel. And Polux, I've been watching the race and the North route, which also had low wind speeds at the start.

If they post the hours motoring I don't know where because it's not on the web site. As an FYI though, I've got no problem motoring if need be. ...
Well, since I am the one that is posting more on this thread if someone is not interested in what I think why the well should he be visiting this thread? Have a look at the number of hits.

You may not know that almost all on the cruising division declare, as they are obliged by oath, the hours and they are not few. You can see here the hours on the cruising division, including cats on that 2011 ARC:
https://www.worldcruising.com/arc/ar...ntresults.aspx
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Palarran has a range of 1000 miles under motor and if we need to get across so my crew can get back to work, were going to motor. Hopefully the wind will cooperate next year.
And you mean you would not declare the hours you have been motoring, not even under oath? I don't believe.

That's what I am saying, they will declare the hours, and as in other years where I have been doing this, we will look at that when they are posted and I will make the appropriated comments and evaluation regarding each boat.

Regarding the Lagoon 620 it has been and not only on this ARC a fast boat as his rating (for the ARC) shows that with:1.197 for the three Lagoon 620, while for instance while a Nautitech 542 has 1.130 and the Chris White Juniper 55ft trimaran has only 1.116. Generally the ARC ratings have been proved adequated in what regards sailing performance on the ARC.
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Old 03-12-2016, 19:47   #133
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Well, since I am the one that is posting more on this thread if someone is not interested in what I think why the well should he be visiting this thread? Have a look at the number of hits.

Don't confuse peoples interest in the ARC rally with interest in your posts. Look, I appreciate your dedication to giving us your opinions but no one can even make a post without you counter posting about what they have said. And usually when you do comment, it's not really positive. Just think about it will you.

You may not know that almost all on the cruising division declare, as they are obliged by oath, the hours and they are not few. You can see here the hours on the cruising division, including cats on that 2011 ARC:
https://www.worldcruising.com/arc/ar...ntresults.aspx

I do know that. You have already written it about 5 times. But thank you for pointing out how to look up the past history on results.

And you mean you would not declare the hours you have been motoring, not even under oath? I don't believe.

I'm not entering the race, but of course I would. Why do you question that? Again, fwiw, if we need to motor we will. Our goal is be safe, have fun, and reach our destination. On my trip over to the Med we motored A LOT!! And it still took 17 days to reach Horta from St. Maarten. Bad luck with the weather.

That's what I am saying, they will declare the hours, and as in other years where I have been doing this, we will look at that when they are posted and I will make the appropriated comments and evaluation regarding each boat.

I'll look forward to that. Is there any chance that someone else can comment about the results without you jumping down their throats?

Regarding the Lagoon 620 it has been and not only on this ARC a fast boat as his rating (for the ARC) shows that with:1.197 for the three Lagoon 620, while for instance while a Nautitech 542 has 1.130 and the Chris White Juniper 55ft trimaran has only 1.116. Generally the ARC ratings have been proved adequated in what regards sailing performance on the ARC.

We will see in the end. I'd personally defer judgement on this cat to Yeloya as he has probably sailed more than anyone I know. But from appearance it should no perform that well.
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Old 04-12-2016, 00:50   #134
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Generally the ARC ratings have been proved adequated in what regards sailing performance on the ARC.
Ha ha haaaaa ..

Polux, I just wonder; have you made this passage at all ? Have you ever sailed any boat other than yours, particularly a catamaran ?

Yeloya
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Old 04-12-2016, 02:18   #135
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Ha ha haaaaa ..

Polux, I just wonder; have you made this passage at all ? Have you ever sailed any boat other than yours, particularly a catamaran ?

Yeloya

no intention to attack but you said same conditions like L 42 that sailed 16kn in that intro video, FP can do 11kn max, and Lagoon video is fake as it is impossible.

Video is legit, and I am sure well sailed FP can sail same speed.
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