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Old 24-11-2016, 16:36   #46
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Without a genset (heavy for a raceboat) the only way to top up batteries is to run your engine using the alternator which will show engine hours used so no good looking at engine hours.
I don't know how they do it on the ARC but on the French transats and on the Vendee globe they use hydrogenerators.

Here they can use the engines for charging. I don't know how they control the exclusive use.

"Can I use my engine? This is a cruising rally, so use of engines is OK! Boats in the fun competition Cruising Division must declare their engine hours for their results to be calculated. Boats in the Racing Division are NOT allowed to use their engines for propulsion."
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Old 24-11-2016, 18:37   #47
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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A Moody 54DS is coming back to las Palmas with rudder damage.
Or they just run out of beer ... ;-)

There was some damage on the Arcona too.

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Old 24-11-2016, 18:42   #48
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

All that engine obsession is pretty silly.

They are not supposed to use their engines yet many (maybe most) boats will clock tens, some hundreds, of hours.

I am free to use the engine. Last time we crossed we used the engine 8 hours.

They say things forbidden taste sweeter. Maybe that's that.

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Old 24-11-2016, 18:44   #49
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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...
There was some damage on the Arcona too.
b.
Yes I know, posted about that. Rig damage. Do you saw what was that damage?
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Old 24-11-2016, 18:49   #50
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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All that engine obsession is pretty silly.

They are not supposed to use their engines yet many (maybe most) boats will clock tens, some hundreds, of hours.

I am free to use the engine. Last time we crossed we used the engine 8 hours.

They say things forbidden taste sweeter. Maybe that's that.

b.
They are free to use the engine for motoring, most of them, all that are on the cruising division, they have to log the hours and declare them at the end of the race.

The racing division cannot use it for propelling the boat and at the end all crew members had to sign a statement swearing that they did not have used the engine. Off course they can all be liars but it is worth it?
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Old 25-11-2016, 04:59   #51
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

I bet that some that are following this thread are thinking: What do I care about 3 million boats (the Outremer 5x) or even 1.5 million ones (the Lagoon 62) or big boats. I do care about inexpensive small boats and their performance.

So let's ave a look at the smaller boats, that on the ARC are boats with 46ft or less. In fact these are a minority. ARC is mostly sailed by modern boats and the modern tendency is to sail a bigger boat, mostly mass produced boats, instead of sailing a considerably smaller semi custom boat that would cost the same as the bigger one.

The bigger boat would be faster, would have more stability and even if not probably offering the same durability, most sailors prefer to change more frequently a mass production boat, for a new and more updated model, than to keep a high-quality one for decades one that will become less modern and less performant with time.

The two best performances regarding boats with 46ft or less belong to a Grand Soleil 43, on the Southern route and to a Lagoon 42 on the Northern route. Both boats are going really fast and are being sailed on a very sportive way, but the performance and size are there.

None of them is a typical cruiser racer, more pointed for racing than cruising and the Lagoon 42 is a condo cat, not a performance cruiser like the Grand Soleil. Once again the downwind performance of condo cats is demonstrated as their suitability for sailing on the trade winds. Upwind there would not be any comparison between the performance of the Grand Soleil and the one of the Lagoon.

More boats with 46ft or less with a great performance: A Dufour 385 that sails ahead but close to a FP Lavezzi 40, a Lagoon 42 and a Catana 42 that is ahead of two Elan 434, all going fast.

More to the South, a Lagoon 450 that is ahead but close to a First 40.7 and a Maxi 1300.

More to the South a brand new Grand Soleil 46 is ahead of Arcona 430 of a FP Lucia 40.

Even more to the South a First 40 is ahead a Lagoon 450, followed by a Leopard 46, a Xc 45 a Dufour 455, a Dufour 44p, a Moody 45DS, a Comfortina 42 and a A35.

These are the faster boats, in different courses and making a different routing. It is too soon to see what will be the ones that will have made the best choice, even if I believe the best choice in what regards performance will be the one to the North were the Lagoon 42 and the Dufour 385 are sailing even if a more southern course would be understandable for comfort reasons.

Anyway, independent of the best choices in what regards performance, the comparison of boats on the same course and with the same routing options remains valid.

A mention to the slower boats on the fleet: A Dean 365, a Fortissimo 33, and a Prout 39.

http://yb.tl/arc2016#
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Old 25-11-2016, 05:37   #52
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

By and large monos are as fast as the cruising cats, there may be a little more on tap with the cats but the owners wisely sail them on the conservative side while the monos can be much more aggressive without the fears of capsize. We are cruising on an older designed mono hull and crossing the Atlantic we were around the same speed or faster than most of the cats around our size and if there was any windward legs we would be well ahead. As I said I think the cats had a bit more on tap but we're more conservative. These boats are not purchased for speed, it's all about the room and comfort levels and anyone who has spent any time on them can understand that.
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Old 25-11-2016, 06:28   #53
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Yes I know, posted about that. Rig damage. Do you saw what was that damage?
Negative. They stopped at Tenerife probably fixed the problem there. Now headed to LP. If I see them here, I will ask.

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Old 25-11-2016, 06:36   #54
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

And which big boats are the most disappointing ?
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Old 25-11-2016, 07:11   #55
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Polux you said you read that the german family had water ingress prior to departure from canary. Where did you read this?
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Old 25-11-2016, 07:27   #56
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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You know, that Wally 60 that have a performance not very different from that brand new 60ft Outremer 5x is a true piece of museum and it shows how good it is Luca Brenta as a designer. In fact that boat is so old that it was designed to race in IMS It is an almost 30 year old design coming from the beginning of the 90's. It had a recent upgrade but the hull is the same. A very nice looking boat and one that don't show up its real age.

His original name was a funny one Boabunda (Portuguese) that translated means "GoodAss"







About 25 years separates the design of the two boats and even if the Outremer has a very good interior while this Wally has a much more spartan one it is remarkable how the old lady can still be a match.

The Outremer 5X is a beautiful boat and a great choice as a passagemaker, big enough for not having capsize concerns, that has on his price, at over 3 million USD, the big drawback.

I would rather look more enviously to the More 55 that comes not far and that costs 6 times less. I guess that not even if I was very rich I would spend so much on a sailboat.
Color me dumb.... but why is the helmsmen on the windward side? Doesn't this block his view of the genny's leech?
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Old 25-11-2016, 07:52   #57
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

I have to say what I enjoy seeing in these races is the little slow boats that somehow are kicking ass and taking names, like Freedom, the Westerly 39. They may be in the back, but they are in the neighborhood of 50 footers. Bravo.

So much is chance in these long ocean races, particularly among the set that don't have very experienced weathermen running Expedition with fistfuls of data coming in. Make one bad call on a route and you're screwed.
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Old 25-11-2016, 07:53   #58
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Color me dumb.... but why is the helmsmen on the windward side? Doesn't this block his view of the genny's leech?
But he can see the luff better, not to mention where the boat is going lol.
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Old 25-11-2016, 07:58   #59
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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By and large monos are as fast as the cruising cats, there may be a little more on tap with the cats but the owners wisely sail them on the conservative side while the monos can be much more aggressive without the fears of capsize. We are cruising on an older designed mono hull and crossing the Atlantic we were around the same speed or faster than most of the cats around our size and if there was any windward legs we would be well ahead. As I said I think the cats had a bit more on tap but we're more conservative. These boats are not purchased for speed, it's all about the room and comfort levels and anyone who has spent any time on them can understand that.
I think it's apples to oranges regarding the crews, not the boats. Most of the cats are probably families or very casual sailors, using the ARC primarily as a means of getting to the Caribbean. Most of the big monos are sailed harder, not because they are safer but because their crew is actually trying harder to go fast.
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Old 25-11-2016, 08:15   #60
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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I think it's apples to oranges regarding the crews, not the boats. Most of the cats are probably families or very casual sailors, using the ARC primarily as a means of getting to the Caribbean. Most of the big monos are sailed harder, not because they are safer but because their crew is actually trying harder to go fast.
I agree with you generally, I wasn't referring to the big monos and big cats I was referring to the mom and pop crews which we were when we crossed. We had boats similar to ours that took a week longer to cross so I suspect they were extremely relaxed. My only point is its safe to push a mono generally and most cat drivers I have gotten to know are very conservative in how they sail. I expect the big cats that are racing are not as conservative as the mom and pop crews.
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