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Old 23-11-2016, 13:17   #31
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Not motor sailing with prop providing motive power, I was thinking more about boats that need power to operate winches etc.
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Old 23-11-2016, 13:25   #32
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Lots of wind on the Northern route, well over 20k and several boats seem to like it among them the Outremer 5x that is going fast now and recovering, the smaller Catana 531, the Wally 60, a Oyster 62 the three More 55, a Lagoon 620, a lagoon 520, an Oyster 655, a Swan 65...and a X41. The 40class Pogo and the 40class Akilaria are also on the front Northern group.

There are plenty of bigger boats among these. Regarding the boats above the fastest boat is the Wally 60 making over 12k. The 40ft Akilaria and the Pogo are making a bit over 11k.The Outremer 5x, the Catana 531, are doing a bit over 10. Several More 55 are making a bit over 9k, the fastest Oysters 62 and 69 are making 9 and all the others are making over 8K.

I guess that today the focus will be on the inexpensive More 55 and on the Wally 60 that have just overtaken the 60ft Outremer:



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Old 23-11-2016, 13:37   #33
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Yikes, those boats are flying, very impressive speeds out of the mono hulls vs similar sized Cats and that little Pogo 40 is smoking right along. That would be nothing but fun sailing those boats.
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Old 23-11-2016, 17:17   #34
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post

(...)

The wind was light but not that light, with a spinnaker they could have been making 6/7K on a direct course instead of making a big detour at bigger speeds. It didn't pay off, that's a fact

(...)
No do mate, no do. Trust my local knowledge and the view we had from the chopper - there was only oily water on the direct route when they were passing the land's end (Maspalomas lighthouse). The slower boats got there only by the evening when the island started breathing (and the open water wind picked up too) and this created conditions conductive to giving it a shot. But there was no shot when the leaders sailed by.

Our island is a piece of rock that stands nearly a mile tall and the E and S slopes are large swaths of barren (goats!) rock. You will never believe the thermal wind we can get here before you get to see (sail) it.

But you may be right about the boats overdoing it and going 'a bit' (=grossly) too far. I was not following this in the finest detail as my clients sail mostly (nearly exclusively) the non ARC boats. (Which does not stop many from departing at nearly the same time, unfortunately, arghhhhhh).

Looking at Rambler today she is smoking fast BUT the VOR Trident this one was making in excess of 20 knots at a point in the afternoon. Pretty impressive.

Taking bets at the dock I was in two minds and something was telling me that if the conditions are mixed, a VOR boat may take a lead. Rambler looks an out and our runner. What do you reckon?

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Old 23-11-2016, 18:52   #35
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

What do you make of Juniper's performance?

I like it.

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Old 23-11-2016, 18:54   #36
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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No do mate, no do. Trust my local knowledge and the view we had from the chopper - there was only oily water on the direct route when they were passing the land's end (Maspalomas lighthouse). The slower boats got there only by the evening when the island started breathing (and the open water wind picked up too) and this created conditions conductive to giving it a shot. But there was no shot when the leaders sailed by.

Our island is a piece of rock that stands nearly a mile tall and the E and S slopes are large swaths of barren (goats!) rock. You will never believe the thermal wind we can get here before you get to see (sail) it.

But you may be right about the boats overdoing it and going 'a bit' (=grossly) too far. I was not following this in the finest detail as my clients sail mostly (nearly exclusively) the non ARC boats. (Which does not stop many from departing at nearly the same time, unfortunately, arghhhhhh).

Looking at Rambler today she is smoking fast BUT the VOR Trident this one was making in excess of 20 knots at a point in the afternoon. Pretty impressive.

Taking bets at the dock I was in two minds and something was telling me that if the conditions are mixed, a VOR boat may take a lead. Rambler looks an out and our runner. What do you reckon?

Cheers,
b.
No, the best VOR is Trifork, they have beaten Rambler on compensated time on the Middle Sea Race but in real time they lost 4 hours and a half on a race with a bit more than 2 days and a half. They don't stand a chance in real time.
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Old 24-11-2016, 05:38   #37
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert sailor View Post
Yikes, those boats are flying, very impressive speeds out of the mono hulls vs similar sized Cats and that little Pogo 40 is smoking right along. That would be nothing but fun sailing those boats.
You know, that Wally 60 that have a performance not very different from that brand new 60ft Outremer 5x is a true piece of museum and it shows how good it is Luca Brenta as a designer. In fact that boat is so old that it was designed to race in IMS It is an almost 30 year old design coming from the beginning of the 90's. It had a recent upgrade but the hull is the same. A very nice looking boat and one that don't show up its real age.

His original name was a funny one Boabunda (Portuguese) that translated means "GoodAss"







About 25 years separates the design of the two boats and even if the Outremer has a very good interior while this Wally has a much more spartan one it is remarkable how the old lady can still be a match.

The Outremer 5X is a beautiful boat and a great choice as a passagemaker, big enough for not having capsize concerns, that has on his price, at over 3 million USD, the big drawback.

I would rather look more enviously to the More 55 that comes not far and that costs 6 times less. I guess that not even if I was very rich I would spend so much on a sailboat.
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Old 24-11-2016, 06:05   #38
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

And the focus of the day goes for the Lagoon 620. I find amazing that such a "fat" boat can have such a good performance on the trade winds, but tha's a fact confirmed by three of them going very fast on the head of the transat following different courses, and the one that is on the same route choice of the 60ft Outremer is not far from it.





That is also true that comparing their performance with monohulls on their respective route choices (all different) we will see that the one more to the North has ahead a Oyster 62 and is head to head with a More 55, that the one on the middle is head to head with a Discovery 55 and that the one on the South is head to head with a Grand Soleil 43 and a the 48ft red Oyster, but these two last, even if quite smaller are racing.

Anyway a great performance specially if we take into consideration that a Lagoon 620 costs about half the price of the Outremer 5x and three times the price of a More 55.
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Old 24-11-2016, 07:03   #39
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Quote:
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No, the best VOR is Trifork, they have beaten Rambler on compensated time on the Middle Sea Race but in real time they lost 4 hours and a half on a race with a bit more than 2 days and a half. They don't stand a chance in real time.
OK. I see. I did not follow the Middle Sea Race. I am more into the shorthanded events and record attempts than the crewed multi race game (except for the AC perhaps).

Trifork looked very sexy and trim at the dock. New paint, new lines, etc. The crew were a bunch of nice and joyful people. Rambler's crew more like flew in, jumped on and cast off. Zero interaction with the crowd. Must be some highly paid pro guys.

The girls took off by now after a start line crashhhhhh. I think they are sailing a boat like Chikirafiki was. Some of us have the guts.

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Old 24-11-2016, 07:35   #40
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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What do you make of Juniper's performance?

I like it.

b.
What do you think?

Slow? Fast? Indifferent? Pretty? Desirable? Comfortable?

I think I like it. Almost definitively!

Images attribution: boatshop24, yachtdepo, ARC

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Old 24-11-2016, 09:30   #41
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Incredible boat!
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Old 24-11-2016, 12:28   #42
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Quote:
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What do you think?

Slow? Fast? Indifferent? Pretty? Desirable? Comfortable?

I think I like it. Almost definitively!

Images attribution: boatshop24, yachtdepo, ARC

b.
here you can have a better look:

Trimaran 1989 Custom Chris White Juniper 2 Trimaran For Sale

It is a 30 old design, a big boat (55ft) with a big maintenance, big marina and shipyard costs for a very small interior and it seems it kind of denies the advantage of a trimaran (speed) maintaining all its inconveniences.

For a 55ft trimaran it is making a relatively slow transat, going at the same pace of a Bavaria 50 and with several smaller Condo cats doing better.

It seems he goes a bit faster now and they are choosing the fast lane on the North with higher winds. Maybe they improve their performance. They are making 7.4k now, with almost all boat around doing better. We will see.
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Old 24-11-2016, 12:49   #43
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

A Moody 54DS is coming back to las Palmas with rudder damage.
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Old 24-11-2016, 13:01   #44
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen View Post
They're cruising not racing. Nothing wrong with motor sailing but it is unsportsmanlike to not admit to it.
They ask everybody to log their engine hours and to declare it on the end. Yes I agree, it is only unsportsmanlike if they do not declare it correctly on the end. They publish that with the results and even have some formula to take that in account in what regards performance and results.

On the racing class it is different, they check the engine hours and the use of engine is not allowed.
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Old 24-11-2016, 13:16   #45
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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They ask everybody to log their engine hours and to declare it on the end. Yes I agree, it is only unsportsmanlike if they do not declare it correctly on the end. They publish that with the results and even have some formula to take that in account in what regards performance and results.

On the racing class it is different, they check the engine hours and the use of engine is not allowed.
Without a genset (heavy for a raceboat) the only way to top up batteries is to run your engine using the alternator which will show engine hours used so no good looking at engine hours.
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