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Old 21-11-2016, 10:19   #16
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
While I would never pay for this "rally" in particular, you do get a lot of valuable benefits in return for the fee. You get safety seminars, weather routing, tracking, logistical support, dockage at both ends for a certain period, and a few parties and meals thrown in not to mention some swag.

The ARC has traditionally been aimed at boats and crews that don't have significant bluewater experience. It was a vehicle for educating them and then providing the support for a safe and well monitored crossing. It's really only in recent years that it has turned into a race instead of a rally, and much of that is due to european racing boats that join up as a means of getting to the Caribbean in advance of the winter racing circuit (Caribbean 600, Heineken St Maarten Regatta, etc).

...That said, the ARC events always struck me as overly pricy. I think the World ARC is like $30k at this point.

I did a crossing a few years ago and we pulled into St. Lucia, to the Rodney Bay Marina, right after most of the ARC boats had arrived. The ARC support personnel were all over the place, helping with getting stuff fixed, provisioning, etc.
....
WOW!!!! from were did come those $30k?????

I don't know actual prices and I will post them when I know, but 4 years ago it was about $1.5k for a typical boat with a crew of four.
ARC rally: 20 questions answered - Yachting World

And the ARC is not a race. Yes it has a small racing division and about that you are right regarding being boats that will go for the American race season while is winter in Europe but the huge number of boats are European cruisers that are making the Atlantic loop, passing the European winter on the Caribbean and getting back to Europe in the Spring.

There are also a considerably number of charter boats that are doing the same, going for the Caribbean charter season to come later to the Med one on the European Summer. The Charter boats take the opportunity to offer charter place to the ones that want to have the experience to cross the Atlantic and they are not racing since the crew is typically very inexperienced (with an experienced skipper).

You can see here what are the boats that are racing and the ones that are cruising. On the list you will have at the end of each boat line racing or crusing, as it is the case.
https://www.worldcruising.com/arc/ar...ntentries.aspx

I believe that besides all the support that is provided most cruisers will find more interesting making it with 200 other boats than alone, not only for socializing but because it is fun to see what is the performance of each boat while cruising compared with other boats, not to mention encountering other yachts on the middle of the big ocean.


The tracker:
http://yb.tl/arc2016#
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Old 21-11-2016, 10:35   #17
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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WOW!!!! from were did come those $30k?????

I don't know actual prices and I will post them when I know, but 4 years ago it was about $1.5k for a typical boat with a crew of four.
ARC rally: 20 questions answered - Yachting World
Re-read my post. WORLD ARC. WORLD WORLD WORLD.

I may have been a little off. 2016-17 boat fee started at 15,000 GBP. Crew fee for four was 1,700 GBP.

So that's roughly $21,000.

Remember Polux, there is the entry fee, which just gets you on the scratch list, and then there is the boat fee and the crew fees.
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Old 21-11-2016, 12:40   #18
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Re-read my post. WORLD ARC. WORLD WORLD WORLD.

I may have been a little off. 2016-17 boat fee started at 15,000 GBP. Crew fee for four was 1,700 GBP.

So that's roughly $21,000.

Remember Polux, there is the entry fee, which just gets you on the scratch list, and then there is the boat fee and the crew fees.
Sorry about that, the thread is about the ARC and I didn't notice. A organized World ARC has to be very expensive. Can you imagine the logistic involved to give adequate support, marinas and so on? Anyway $21 000 would be only a fraction of what really costs a circumnavigation, specially if you stop working for doing one.

I don't think it makes sense to make it with the ARC if one does not have a time table to respect but many that do that are on a Sabbatical year and in that case the ARC World is very handy.
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Old 22-11-2016, 12:27   #19
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Difficult to know who is going fast given the different choices in routing but the ones on the North will have more wind and will be faster with a better chance of completely avoid the high pressure zone ahead.

On that group that has also the advantage of being following the rhumb line special mention for a Oyster 62, a Oyster 655, a More 55 a Catana 531. A bit more to the South mention to a Lagoon 620 and a bit back, among the fastest smaller boats, a Lagoon 420, a FP Lavezzi 40, a Dufour 385, a Grand Soleil 43, a Lagoon 450, a First 40, a Arcona 400, a FP Lucia 40 and a A35.

Today special mention goes to Lagoon, with many boats sailing fast on the trade winds with special relevance to several 620 and the smaller 42 and the special disappointment goes to the the 60ft Outremer 5x the sails behind the Lagoon 42 and to the Wally 60 that is just a bit ahead the Lagoon 42 but way behind the first More 55, behind the second too, behind also of a Baltic 51 and a Beneteau 50!!!! Shame on them

the new Lagoon 42


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Old 22-11-2016, 12:53   #20
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Does the ARC tracking show bearing and track?

I'm wondering if we've reached the point in information processing whereby an automated weather/wind routing server system is providing between results than an experienced weather router.
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Old 22-11-2016, 13:14   #21
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Does the ARC tracking show bearing and track?

I'm wondering if we've reached the point in information processing whereby an automated weather/wind routing server system is providing between results than an experienced weather router.
The tracker is a poor one, the British yellow brick that they unfortubnatelly use also on the Sydney Hobart.

Yes, it shows bearing and speed, also wind direction and force.
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Well, it depends how experienced but certainly it will much better than an inexperienced one.

On this case it is not only in what regards speed but also comfort versus speed. The ones that go to the North will take winds on the high 20's but as we know that prevision can turn easily when they reach there on 30 or more knots of sustained wind, gusting 40 or more and things can become uncomfortable and the material stressed.

I believe that is why so many went for courses more to the South, away from the rhumb line. I don't understand the ones that went really South, near the coast of Africa. I believe they will be catch for days in a big zone with almost no wind.

Regarding your question about router information, if you go back to the beginning of the course (you can do that with the tracker) you will see that the two most professional crews, the one on the Rambler and on the VOR 70) made a huge routing mistake and lost a lot of time. Don't know if it was for a bad routing information but probably it was.
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Old 22-11-2016, 16:53   #22
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Quote:
Originally Posted by SV DestinyAscen View Post
Does the ARC tracking show bearing and track?

I'm wondering if we've reached the point in information processing whereby an automated weather/wind routing server system is providing between results than an experienced weather router.
We reached the point where automated wx routing software provides excellent routing advice. That happened about 20 years ago.

We also reached the point where automated piloting devices provide excellent piloting capability. This also happened about 20 years ago.

We are beginning to see first driverless cars. This is just happening.

Weather routers use wx automated routing software and pilots use automated piloting devices. Drivers are beginning to use automated driverless cars too.

I wonder if what you could mean is perhaps metoffices and weather forecasters becoming obsolete one day. I think they will be. But I think this will be only in another 20 years or so.

I might be wishfull thinking though. I have a skin in this game.

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Old 22-11-2016, 17:03   #23
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

And as for who is going fast.

Rambler is and the VORs are.

Personally, I like the way the Lagoons 52 are going. They seem to cover many miles on a pretty regular basis.

Chop of the hen penthouse they carry on the roof and they become pretty boats too.

Some HRs seem to go very slow. My feeling is the boats are fine just owned by very conservative sailors. Quite some contrast to many Oysters. On the second thought the fast Oysters are not sailed by their owners either.

What looked like a "mistake" of some boats that sailed deep S before cutting Westwards was not a mistake. they were ahead of the whole fleet and the night was coming. This is how our islands bend the wind and the decisions were right (also by the chasing pack). I know this looked odd on the tracker but it was the correct move. These two groups were sailing in different and quickly changing conditions. Both groups did fine. Good advice from Chris, I think.

I am looking at the CV pack and they seem to be sailing way faster that wx data indicates. My bet is the wx model is way off now OR ELSE someone has started the donkey. ;-)

Cheers,
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Old 22-11-2016, 18:03   #24
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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...
What looked like a "mistake" of some boats that sailed deep S before cutting Westwards was not a mistake. they were ahead of the whole fleet and the night was coming. This is how our islands bend the wind and the decisions were right (also by the chasing pack). I know this looked odd on the tracker but it was the correct move. These two groups were sailing in different and quickly changing conditions. Both groups did fine. Good advice from Chris, I think.

I am looking at the CV pack and they seem to be sailing way faster that wx data indicates. My bet is the wx model is way off now OR ELSE someone has started the donkey. ;-)

Cheers,
b.
Yes. I believe that some boats were suspiciously fast in very light winds, big ones that carry a lot of diesel and in the end I believe they will not declare those hours but in the end that is not a problem, we will see them stay behind soon.

Regarding Rambler, the fastest VOR and some other boats that are racing not having made a huge routing mistake, play the tracker back and look what they have lost when they had come from South to the right course on the North...not to a single boat but to all, considering they should be way faster. Go to 20/9 at 19.24 and at 21/9 at 10.33, going with the tracker back.

It is ridiculous the time they lost sailing hugely faster boats. Not with a single boat but regarding all fast boats that sailed much more to the North and never went South. It is more evident on Trifork, the fastest of all VOR 70 racing since it is slower than Rambler. If you do routing certainly you can see that. Not all, not even the vast majority are motoring
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Old 22-11-2016, 18:59   #25
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

I always get a kick out of calling the ARC a race and using that info for how fast the boat is when many of these boats motor when the air is light. In real races you do not motor, period. That aside for pure entertainment I guess there might be a little bit of value.
As to the world ARC I visited with a few of the skippers in the San Blas Islands on their way thru and they told me the fees once all the bits were included were very close to $30,000 USA dollars. It's not the cheap seats that's for sure. I do know that everyone on the rally seems to enjoy it and that suggests they are getting their money's worth.
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Old 22-11-2016, 19:28   #26
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polux View Post

(...)

Regarding Rambler, the fastest VOR and some other boats that are racing not having made a huge routing mistake, play the tracker back and look what they have lost when they had come from South to the right course on the North...not to a single boat but to all, considering they should be way faster. Go to 20/9 at 19.24 and at 21/9 at 10.33, going with the tracker back.

(...)
Yes.

But they were ahead of the others and the conditions change at different rate under the islands and away from us. So the top boats had 'no other choice' (=no better choice at the point of taking one) but do what they did as this was still the fastest way to get from A to B.

The alternative for them would have been to ... slow down and "get caught up with". Hmmmm ... somewhat against the grain of the racing practice to keep it moving, esp. when the air gets very light.

I am aware it looks odd on the tracker but it did not look odd at the time when they did what they did. Offshore it is less common that a 30 miles spread puts one in the air different from what the opponent gets. But this is the case in light winds and close to land. Just recall last VOR and what the Pink Boat did sailing into Cape Town.

Would be sweet to talk to someone onboard Rambler and hear what their take is as seen from the boat. But I do not know anyone there. There was no one onboard for the two weeks prior to their departure to make friends with ;-(

Bueno. +Hugggsss,
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Old 23-11-2016, 12:36   #27
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Yes.

But they were ahead of the others and the conditions change at different rate under the islands and away from us. So the top boats had 'no other choice' (=no better choice at the point of taking one) but do what they did as this was still the fastest way to get from A to B.

The alternative for them would have been to ... slow down and "get caught up with". Hmmmm ... somewhat against the grain of the racing practice to keep it moving, esp. when the air gets very light.
...
I don't think you are right. Not all the boats that went North and were fast motored, some belonged to the racing division and had the hours checked. The wind was light but not that light, with a spinnaker they could have been making 6/7K on a direct course instead of making a big detour at bigger speeds. It didn't pay off, that's a fact

But let's talk about more interesting even sad news: the Arcona 400 that was going fast is coming back to repair the rig. I don't know what is the problem.

And a yacht sunk, all crew was rescued. Another cheap production boat, many would be thinking! No, very expensive Aluminium one of:






Nice boat, looks quite new. They should not have gone out of Tenerife without sorting out a water problem on the bilges that they experienced on the way to the Island. On the blog they first say it was sea water, then fresh water...and it seems it was really sea water. They could not found from where it was coming, the electrical pumps stop working and the manual ones could not cope with the water ingress.

I am very sorry for them and I really hope they have the boat insured.
</title> <link rel="profile" href="http://gmpg.org/xfn/11"> <link rel="pingback" href="http://www.sy-noah.de/xmlrpc.php"> <title>Noah
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Old 23-11-2016, 12:47   #28
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

I'm surprised the ARC allowed them to even depart if they have an active leak... Wow.
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Old 23-11-2016, 13:00   #29
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

"In real races you do not motor, period."

Where does that leave boats that are unable to sail without there motors / generators on to provide power to operate the boat.
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Old 23-11-2016, 13:12   #30
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re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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"In real races you do not motor, period."

Where does that leave boats that are unable to sail without there motors / generators on to provide power to operate the boat.
They're cruising not racing. Nothing wrong with motor sailing but it is unsportsmanlike to not admit to it.
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