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Old 07-12-2016, 11:59   #166
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Originally Posted by Palarran View Post
Odd, Minerva of Kip has turned around.
Yes you are right but now they returned to the same course. It seems that someone there wants to get out of the boat fast but don't know if it is faster to go to Cabo Verde or to Santa Lucia.

The boat was doing a decent passage till some days ago and then some radical change of course put it on the tail of the Transat. They show now 9.2K speed???? Didn't know that a Bavaria 44 was able to do 9.2K motoring (they have 2K winds).

Anyway at that speed the fuel is not going to last much. It seems that there are some problems on that boat.
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Old 07-12-2016, 12:57   #167
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Today I will only post boats of 45ft or smaller that are between 460nm and 595nm from Santa Lucia. The first of those after the Jeanneau 50DS is a XC 45

followed by a X43

a Bavaria 40 cruiser

a Dufour 44p

a Allures 45

another Lagoon 42

another Lagoon 450

a Jeanneau SO 45.2

a Moody 45DS

and a Maxi 1300

these boats sail among a of bigger boats, many 55ft boats among them.

Next post will only contemplate boats with 40ft or less.
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:19   #168
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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beautiful boat, beautiful sail
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Old 08-12-2016, 02:54   #169
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

ARC blog is widening my horisons about the boats, especially monohull.

Polux logic conclusions are largerly correct about cats, although they create lots of noise on CF.

In particular lagoon cats that i know the best, comparing to mature PROUT design. i think Lagoon has similar philosophy, structurally well built (i mean it) spacious, comfortable, however thanks to advancement of computer simulation water, wind simulation and large feedback from end users 'cosy&safe' cats have become more performant and liveable.

Same advancement one can see in mono space.

For me, critical issue is sun protection, more than flipping or windward ability or anything else. Cats can do it much better. There is always comfy shade to be found outside.

finish mumbling here
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Old 08-12-2016, 06:42   #170
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
ARC blog is widening my horisons about the boats, especially monohull.

Polux logic conclusions are largerly correct about cats, although they create lots of noise on CF.

In particular lagoon cats that i know the best, comparing to mature PROUT design. i think Lagoon has similar philosophy, structurally well built (i mean it) spacious, comfortable, however thanks to advancement of computer simulation water, wind simulation and large feedback from end users 'cosy&safe' cats have become more performant and liveable.

Same advancement one can see in mono space.

For me, critical issue is sun protection, more than flipping or windward ability or anything else. Cats can do it much better. There is always comfy shade to be found outside.

finish mumbling here
Thanks, specially coming from a cat sailor. You know, I like all sailboats, including cats and the funniest thing is that even if I know that performance cats are much more prone to capsize than a condo cat and demand a much more careful sailing, personally I do like them more than condo cats, mostly due to a less windage and a better windward performance. I have to say that they look also a lot better to my eyes.

Another thing is to know how light a cruising cat can be, for a given size, to warrant a reasonably safety in what regards casual cruising sailing for average or even inexperienced sailors and that's a fact than lighter the cat the bigger it has to be, even if one does not need necessarily the space of a bigger boat. Bigger means also much more expensive.

When we see boats like the Chamberlain 14 (5T) with three boats made and two capsized and the TS 52 (7T) with two? boats made and one capsized, it seems to me that for that kind of Disp/Length 50ft cats don't not have a reasonably safe margin for cruising.

Unfortunately in what regards cruising cats the design of a cruising cats, with a weight that can make it safe with the size a couple needs for cruising (around 40ft), with low windage and daggerboards for a better upwind sailing and a reasonably price (similar to condo cats) has been completely abandoned due to the overwhelming number of cat clients that want them with the biggest possible interior space.

Regarding all that it seems contemporary mainstream cat design is compromising more and more sailability regarding older designs from the same brand. Fountain Pajot is a good example, with older models compromising less sailing, presenting less windage and less interior space.

Even saying all this it is obvious by the ARC results that modern condo cats are a good option in what regards passage making on the trade winds and that their performance, while cruising, on the trade winds with loaded boats is not very different from the one of performance cats. That is what show this ARC, as also other ARC editions.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:19   #171
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

And today I will be looking to 40ft boats or smaller between 427 and 603nm from Santa Lucia. After that beautiful and expensive Maxi 1300 comes another First 40

a Halberg Rassy 40

a Lucia 40

another First 40

a Italia 10.98 (37ft)

a A35

and a Lagoon 38


Regarding boats that choose the Northern route and have benefited from better sailing conditions, only the FP Lucia 40. All the others took the Southern and slower course. It is also worth to point out that the smaller boat, the A35, that is sailed by a couple, stopped for 24 fours on Cabo Verde and is being recovering positions since then.

There is among these boats many bigger boats, including boats over 50ft.

Tomorrow I will take a break, letting the few really small boats approach the Island. I will take a look at the times of passage made by the several groups that have already arrived and that I had posted here. Then I will have a look at 37ft boats or smaller, even if they are not many and two of them are already on this group.
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Old 09-12-2016, 09:14   #172
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Finally we can understand what happened with that Bavaria 44, Minerva of kip: the boat was dismasted. The high speed that the boat was doing towards Santa Lucia is explained: the boat is being towed by a motorboat.

Even so towed at over 9k can lead to some problems.

Another problem with a ARC yacht, that had arrived long ago, had to do with fire. A Swan 76 had a big fire aboard while moored and sustained considerable damage.
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Old 09-12-2016, 09:53   #173
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

This was a slow ARC but even so Rambler was able to break the record time doing about 8 days and 6 hours.

Let's then see the passage times of the first and fastest group, the one I posted on post 112.

1st group - post 112
ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

The two first to arrive, very close were the Wally 60 and the Southern wind 82, doing the passage 12 days and about 13 hours.

About 13 hours later arrived the 60ft Outremer 5x and the Pogo 40s2. The Akilaria 40 come some hours away.

Next, at about 26 hours from the Outremer 5x arrived the Catana 53, the Aluminium Mobile 53 and the Oyster 655, all at short distance. This group made the passage in about 14 days and 14 hours.

A distance of about 2 days between the first and the last on this group.

A mention to the Nigel Irens 78, that was sailing a little bit behind the Southern Wind 82, when they decided to sail directly to Antigua. It would have certainly arrived near the SWS82 and the Wally 60.
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Old 09-12-2016, 11:25   #174
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

2nd group
ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

the 2th group had only 3 boats and the first to arrive was a More 55 that closed on the group ahead, at just 20 hours from the last, making the passage in 15 days 10 yours.

11 hours after and at short distance the Lagoon 620 and the Dufour 525GL, making the passage in about 15 days 20 hours.

Regarding the 3rd and 4th group some interesting thing happened since two boats from the 4th group arrived before the ones from the 3th group. I guess that the fastest on the 3rd group run out of diesel while the fastest ones of the 3th group were sailing all the way. We will see that better when the engine hours are reveled.

The ones from the 4th group that arrived ahead of all the ones from the 3th group were a X 562 and a X 41. Both arrived very close, doing about more 13 hours than the Lagoon 62 and making the passage in 16 days 9 hours.

3rd group
ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

The first boat of this group to arrive was the Beneteau 50, coming about 4 hours after the X 41 doing the passage in 16 days 13 hours.

Next, 6 hours later and very close arrived a Lagoon 52 2, a Oyster 575 and two other boats from the 4th group, a Hylas 54 and a Jeanneau SO 54DS. They made the passage in about 16 days and 19 hours.

4th group
ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

After the boats already mentioned that arrived before and with the 3th group, the first of the remaining boats was a Catana 47, another Oyster 575, a Grand Soleil 50 and a Discovery 55 that was previously on the group ahead. They all arrived at short distance and at about 4 hours from the previous group of yachts. They made the passage in about 16 days 23 hours.

From the 4th group the Hanse 575 will only arrive after some boats of the 5th group, so, I will let it for the next post.
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Old 10-12-2016, 05:10   #175
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

5th Group
ARC 2016 the boats and the performances
6th Group
ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

These two also become mixed so I will post the arrival time of the boats independently of belonging to one ore another.

After the Discovery 55 from the last group the first from these groups to arrive was a Oyster 625 at only 3 hour from the Discovery 55 of the previous group, making the passage in 17 days 2 hour then a Bavaria 50 (North route) and a Oyster 48 light wave (South route) that entered at almost the same time with more 2 hours than the Oyster.

Next to Arrive was the Gieffe 51 with more 3 hours, than the Hanse 575 from the previous group Next, with more 7 hours come one of the big surprises of this ARC, a little Dufour 385, that entered with a Beneteau Oceanis 60.

After the Dufour 385 and at about 3 hours and a half from it come, close, a Leopard 48, a Moddy 54 and a Lagoon 620, followed 6 hour later by another Lagoon 620. 3 hours after the Lagoon entered a Discovery 55 and a Grand Soleil 43.

8 hours after the GS43 entered a Bowman 57 and a second Hanse 575.

8 hours after the Hanse 575 entered a Fountain Pajot Lavezzy 40, followed 2 hours later by a Catana 42. 2 hours later entered a Lagoon 450 and a Jeanneau 49DS.

The two last ones of these two groups made the passage in about 18days 15hours.
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:51   #176
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Let's interrupt the posts regarding the boats that have already arrived, to make a last post about the smaller boats that are on the way, 37ft boats or smaller, a minority among the sizes on the ARC.

Regarding these we talked already about the two with the better performance, that are on the previous group, an Italia Yacht 10.80 that is now at 232nm of Santa Lucia and a A35 that notwithstanding have a day stopped at Cabo Verde, is now at 270nm from the finish.

The boat that comes next is an Halberg Rassy 372, one of the new generation, way faster than the old ones:

then a boat already with some years, an Elan 37 and a very curious boat because it is a charter boat, but one only for women, obviously with an all female crew:

nest comes a Najad 320:

and two Comfortina 32


For the second comfortina a photo of the interior: Yes beautiful interior and very well built boats.For the ones that want an old designed small boat with a great interior, this one is a good option.

Many boast behind, including bigger monohull and cats but none as small than the several 32ft boats on this group. I will not look more to slower boats than these ones, that for the size are doing a good passage.

So, boat image posts are finished. Tomorrow I will continue looking at the passage times of the boats with 45ft or less and with 40ft or less.
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Old 10-12-2016, 14:53   #177
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

Here what Knut Frostad thinks about ARC in general and motoring in particular..



Cheers

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Old 10-12-2016, 15:20   #178
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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Here what Knut Frostad thinks about ARC in general and motoring in particular..



Cheers

Yeloya
Yes, what he says makes sense what does not make sense is he being doing the ARC on the cruising division. On the racing division, as he was saying, nobody was using the engine while cruisers, on the cruising division were using the engines when they could and when there was no wind.

That is what is normal on the ARC that is mostly a Rally, not a race.

The ARC is only racing for the very small racing division, for the others it is a passage, even if nobody likes to stay behind, as most of the cruisers when sail with or near other boats.

I believe that what cruisers want to know in what regards ARC boats is not what is best for racing (without motoring) but what type of boats can allow for a reasonably fast passage. Maybe he has learned and on the next time he will make it on the racing division, since he seems to have liked the ambiance.

In what regards that, boats with a big tankage can offer some advantage but the fact is that you see boats with very small tankage, like a Dufour 385 or even less a A 35 (100L of diesel) making very good passage times, similar to the ones of much bigger boats, meaning boats that sail well can also be a good option in what regards a relatively fast passage, even if they can motor a lot less.

Cheers
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Old 10-12-2016, 15:40   #179
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

There's drama in the cruising division with allegations being tossed around between the first and second place finisher, booing during ceremonies and protests being filed.

Nonsense all around.
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Old 10-12-2016, 16:22   #180
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Re: ARC 2016 the boats and the performances

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There's drama in the cruising division with allegations being tossed around between the first and second place finisher, booing during ceremonies and protests being filed.

Nonsense all around.
Protests... in a RALLY??? good grief!

Another reason to not go on such events (for me, at least).

Jim
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