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Old 08-09-2014, 15:04   #16
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Re: Anchoring Debate in Florida continues

I can't believe this is still going on. I 100% love Florida, but am getting so tired of this. It seems like every few years boaters have to defend their right to use the waterways here.
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Old 08-09-2014, 15:25   #17
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Re: Anchoring Debate in Florida continues

I imagine there are many reasons for a derelict vessel. Those coming from canals are one reason. Ive seen other home owners give them away as liveaboards who dont have a clue what it takes. Ive also seen several cases of live aboards dying intestate with realistically no way to legally sell vessel. Ive also seen a galley fire and a lightning sinking.

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Old 08-09-2014, 15:45   #18
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Re: Anchor Debate in Florida

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Originally Posted by biker6977 View Post
If derelict boats are the issue then laws on the books in the area need to be enforced before enacting new laws that extend the reach of government further into the boating community. In an economy such as the current one- would it be best to run off boaters or to accomodate them and allow them to spend $$ that is much needed in the local economy? I suppose those that want an unhindered view don't need the $$ influx but perhaps the owners of business that boaters used would like them to stick around. Again this would NOT be derelict unwanted boats that are not doing any good for anyone. Why must we continually look for legislation when if you look there is already legislation to address the problem?
Spot on...because we are unable or unwilling to enforce the laws on the books, we'll write new legislation to allow more lazy law enforcement. Why check on the status of an apparent derelict boat when you can just say, "don't cross this line" now it's much easier to define the lawbreakers.

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Old 08-09-2014, 16:02   #19
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Re: Anchoring Debate in Florida continues

The real issue isn't the derelict boats, that is just the excuse. If you read the meeting notes etc it is kind of clear.
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Old 08-09-2014, 16:25   #20
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Re: Anchor Debate in Florida

[QUOTE=tomfl;1623640]I am still looking for a cite for the 1 1/2 boat length. Jay Campbell who claims to be a lawyer did post an answer to that question in a facebook thread on this same topic. But I doubt any judge would accept it as a legit cite.

I also doubt any boat owner would agree that anchoring 1 1/2 boat lengths from a boat on a dock is a reasonable idea. Say I have a 10 foot dinghy and anchor 15 feet from a 50 foot steel hull ketch. Anyone really think that is a good idea.[End Quote]

FYI the 1.5x Largest boat is from the Army Corps of Engineers (ACOE) Standards for Fairways. If you have a dock or slip that is what is considered a minimum fairway to permit the boat to enter and exit. Obviously not all Docks and Marinas are compliant but that's the standard.

It was mentioned because many homes in FL have boat docks and something like that might be a good starting point for discussion of a REASONABLE stand off. This might mean 40 to 60 feet for typical cruising boats. 300' is NOT A REASONABLE starting point for conversation (in my opinion).
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Old 08-09-2014, 17:35   #21
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Re: Anchor Debate in Florida

[QUOTE=Scott Berg;1623785]
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Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
I am still looking for a cite for the 1 1/2 boat length. Jay Campbell who claims to be a lawyer did post an answer to that question in a facebook thread on this same topic. But I doubt any judge would accept it as a legit cite.

I also doubt any boat owner would agree that anchoring 1 1/2 boat lengths from a boat on a dock is a reasonable idea. Say I have a 10 foot dinghy and anchor 15 feet from a 50 foot steel hull ketch. Anyone really think that is a good idea.[End Quote]

FYI the 1.5x Largest boat is from the Army Corps of Engineers (ACOE) Standards for Fairways. If you have a dock or slip that is what is considered a minimum fairway to permit the boat to enter and exit. Obviously not all Docks and Marinas are compliant but that's the standard.

It was mentioned because many homes in FL have boat docks and something like that might be a good starting point for discussion of a REASONABLE stand off. This might mean 40 to 60 feet for typical cruising boats. 300' is NOT A REASONABLE starting point for conversation (in my opinion).
This is basically the response to my original question.

Problem I have with the 40 to 60 feet stand off is my boat frequently moves more than that when I am at anchor due to wind and current. Not to mention anchor dragging. What happens if an anchored boat starts off 40 feet away and then the wind or current shifts or the anchor drags and it goes inside the 40 feet, or worse yet drags into the $US1,000,000 70 footer at the dock.

As I have posted many times before there are plenty of places to anchor in Florida where you will have beautiful natural views often times with no other boats in sight. But these places are not so much on the East coast near cities with dinghy docks and access to showers, water, stores, whatever. They are in the Keys West of Key West or Everglades or lots of places on the West coast (I know there are some restrictions on the West coast).

The places looking to impose anchoring restrictions are places that are simply too crowded. Not just too many boats, but too many people on shore as well.

Look at how many anchoring threads there here where folks are griping about being anchored in a remote harbor and someone comes in and tries to anchor too close to them.

Is anyone seriously saying it is OK to anchor 40 feet from another boat.
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Old 08-09-2014, 18:28   #22
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Re: Anchoring Debate in Florida continues

Funny how things evolve. Not that long ago, everybody was making fun of those who bought "Swamp Land" in Florida. Now we're accusing them of being self-centered millionaires who want to keep what's in front of their waterfront properties all to themselves...

As far as I can see, the only thing that has changed in the mean time is the exponentially increasing number of people who wish they had bought swamp land in Florida at the time, and those who will do anything and everything they can to take advantage of all that the Florida waters have to offer, just as long as it's free or reasonably priced, and doesn't put them out of their way.

Get a grip.

Waterfront property owners aren't all millionaires, but they all pay a premium in property taxes and insurance for the simple pleasure of being on the water, and since they are the only ones who are actually paying anything for the privilege, I think the rest of us should be a little more respectful of their concerns than we have been of late.

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Old 08-09-2014, 18:44   #23
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Re: Anchoring Debate in Florida continues

The word condo comes to mind. You can be right or left, "condo" is not freedom. Condo is the requirement to be invisible to your neighbors... We have gone from being spectators in our own lives to being Invisible in our own lives. Cruise on brothers, on to the braracades..freedom!
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Old 08-09-2014, 18:57   #24
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Re: Anchoring Debate in Florida continues

I don't see it so much as disrespecting any land owners rights. It's like someone moving to the desert and getting pissed off at the sand, or buying a house in Vegas, looking out your back door, and deciding all those annoying Casinos have to go.

It's the ocean people, there will be boats, and pelican, and seagulls, water, and who knows what else. If you aren't into that sort of thing, why get a house there? It makes as little sense to me as hating boats, water, and fish and buying a boat. I've tried to see things from both sides but I just don't see much in favor of the home owner, rich or not, they buy something and feel justified in owning something that wasn't included in the sale. If I bought a house near Yellowstone could I make them close a campground near by?

Individual situations may need to be further addressed but from what I've seen it's all a bunch of solutions to problems that aren't there for a few people who think they bought the ocean.

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Old 08-09-2014, 19:11   #25
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Jacques, you do know our federal tax dollars subsidize flood insurance? "The only people paying for the privilege," hardly...in so many ways.
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Old 08-09-2014, 19:14   #26
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Re: Anchoring Debate in Florida continues

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I don't see it so much as disrespecting any land owners rights. It's like someone moving to the desert and getting pissed off at the sand, or buying a house in Vegas, looking out your back door, and deciding all those annoying Casinos have to go.

It's the ocean people, there will be boats, and pelican, and seagulls, water, and who knows what else. If you aren't into that sort of thing, why get a house there? It makes as little sense to me as hating boats, water, and fish and buying a boat. I've tried to see things from both sides but I just don't see much in favor of the home owner, rich or not, they buy something and feel justified in owning something that wasn't included in the sale. If I bought a house near Yellowstone could I make them close a campground near by?

Individual situations may need to be further addressed but from what I've seen it's all a bunch of solutions to problems that aren't there for a few people who think they bought the ocean.

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I agree 100%.

I have little respect for individuals who try to restrict the public's access to public areas. Perhaps people who own waterfront property should realize that their land ends where the water begins, and if the boats, which have been here much longer than the homes, bother them so much, maybe they should move.
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Old 09-09-2014, 05:55   #27
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Re: Anchoring Debate in Florida continues

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I agree 100%.

I have little respect for individuals who try to restrict the public's access to public areas. ............
I don't think anyone is trying to restrict the public's access to public areas (the water), I think they are trying to prevent people from living on it.

Just like a public park, you're welcome to visit, play ball, walk, etc., but you can't set up a tent and live there for a month.

A logical balance would be to allow anchoring for a set period of time in populated areas, perhaps 72 hours, then you must move on. Without a limit, some places become dumping grounds for derelict boats and homeless people. That hurts everyone,
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Old 09-09-2014, 07:06   #28
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Re: Anchoring Debate in Florida Continues

Would a limit also extend to a mooring field?

If limits imposed on anchoring and not a mooring then the analagy is you have to stay at the hilton when you visit xyz city and cant pitch your puptent in the state park.

I like choices.

Oh and another derelict boat ive seen. Towed into anchorage by towns request as it was taking on water in the mooring field.


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Old 09-09-2014, 07:59   #29
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Re: Anchoring Debate in Florida Continues

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Would a limit also extend to a mooring field?

If limits imposed on anchoring and not a mooring then the analagy is you have to stay at the hilton when you visit xyz city and cant pitch your puptent in the state park.

I like choices.

Oh and another derelict boat ive seen. Towed into anchorage by towns request as it was taking on water in the mooring field.


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REALITY CHECK TIME

You can't pitch your tent in a state park right now, unless you pay the camping fee first. There are limits on how long you can stay on some of the balls in the Boot Key mooring field. Something about a state verses city ball.

The point everyone seems to be ignoring is that there are plenty of places to anchor in Florida for free with no hassle from the FWC or anyone else. But these places are not close to towns, and more importantly free/cheap fresh water, stores to buy food, showers/bathrooms, trash cans/dumpsters, bars, and other facilities.

If this bill is passed the only place there will be anchoring restrictions are in towns where anchoring restrictions are passed, the rest of the state will still allow anchoring with no restrictions.

The question I have is why everyone thinks they have to anchor in a town instead of cruising and anchoring away from a town.

I thought the whole idea of cruising was to get away.
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Old 09-09-2014, 08:21   #30
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Re: Anchoring Debate in Florida continues

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I don't think anyone is trying to restrict the public's access to public areas (the water), I think they are trying to prevent people from living on it.

Just like a public park, you're welcome to visit, play ball, walk, etc., but you can't set up a tent and live there for a month.
You are completely wrong about public parks in Florida. There are in fact many parks, both state and county which maintain public "campgrounds" where you can stay in a tent or an RV. They charge $20-$25 per night to use these facilities which include water sewer and electric for the RV's. They give substantial discounts for staying more than 30 days. A previous poster mentioned Melbourne Florida. There are no less than 10 private RV parks, 2 county parks, and one state park within 20 miles of Melbourne that will let you "camp" your RV there for months at a time. Two of the government parks are actually on the Indian River. There's none of this pay by the foot crap regarding RV's. You pay the same rate in a 20 foot tent camper as you do in a 45 foot motor home. In their parks they must maintain roads, operate sewer systems, provide water, and maintain electrical systems. They also provide restroom and shower facilities. The current mooring fields may provide shower and restroom facilities which you have to get to using your own dinghy, not walking on a paved road, and perhaps a small dinghy dock. I can't possibly see how a mooring ball that might cost a couple of thousand to install rates the same charge as an RV camp spot with electricity, water and sewer plumbed right to your RV. Not to mention extra charges for longer boats on some places.

I have been doing some minor research with regards to disbursal and use of boat registration fees. The state law says that 50% of the boat registration fees are to be returned to the counties to be used for marine facility improvements which includes removal of derelict boats, boat ramps, mooring facilities, channel marking, etc. I calculated that last year recreational boat registration fees amounted to almost $29 million. So 14.5 million would have been returned to the counties. 28.7% of those fees were paid by boats over 26 feet, which I took as the arbitrary cut off between trailerable and non trailered boats. Granted some boats over 26 feet are trailered and some under 26 are not, but based on registration classification that is as close as I could get to a reasonable figure. Counties are supposed to send an annual report on how they spent this money to the FWC. Apparently the FWC does not publish these reports and I am going to have to make a public records request to get a copy. I see little to no evidence that the counties are providing any facilities for non-trailerable boats from these funds. Furthermore it would seem that they have a source of at least some funding for removing derelict vessels, yet from the gnashing of teeth that one hears from the counties there are no funds for removing derelict vessels. $1 of each boat registration fee goes to the Marine Trust fund that provides state grants for marine related projects. This amounts to approximately 1.5 million a year for projects which various government entities can apply. The FWC does publish a list of funded projects, which are mostly boat ramps, and this year there was one derelict vessel removal project funded. My question is where did the other 14.5 million go and what was it used for. I see no evidence that the counties are spending this money on Public Marine facilities, especially for non-trailered boats. My understanding is that some of the mooring fields are having trouble because they cost the local government too much to install and maintain. Boot Key comes to mind. Maintenance of the boot Key mooring field was one of the projects funded out of the Marine trust fund. What did Monroe county do with the rest of the boat registration fee money it got back from the state? Why did they have to apply for a separate grant to maintain the facility?

Another complaint I have is that IMO the FWC purposely scheduled these meetings when cruisers both Florida residents and non-residents would be out of the state. I am a Florida resident and happened to be cruising in Maine when these meetings were announced as were many other cruising friends from Florida. This IMO was a blatant attempt to stack the deck in favor of waterfront home owners at these meetings.
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